[Politics] Brexit

[Seagull58]

Think we're going round in circles on this one! The only position determined by the referendum was leaving the EU......


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Inconceivable that the negotiating position will not include immigration controls.

 

[Soulman]

Think we're going round in circles on this one! The only position determined by the referendum was leaving the EU......


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Correct, now it seems that this is a democratic decision that many are trying to wriggle out of.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm not suggesting that that won't be their opening position just that they are likely to have to back down and accept it to get a decent trade deal.

My original point was that you were stating that the reason for Brexit was control of immigration which was not on the referendum paper so politicians can quite legitimately agree to accept freedom of movement.

That may not be Brexiteers preferred outcome but would be perfectly democratic in terms of the referendum...


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Control of immigration was just one of the factors of casting your vote whether to Remain or Leave,

If you are going to take the stance that .....but oh it wasnt specifically asked so its not an important factor,where will your stance end?
lets negotiate to allow laws to be continued to be made in Brussels.......wasnt specifically asked was it.
lets negotiate to keep the EU courts as the prime court.......wasnt specifically asked was it
sod it lets negotiate to join even closer,set up a EU army,ditch the pound and join the Euro.......no one specifically mentioned these points on the ballot paper did they

The vote was Remain or Leave The EU with all the consequences that come with either vote,as widely discussed EVERYWHERE.

Im sure you really know this,but you are just one more remainer trying to throw a stick in the spokes and keep everything delayed for as long as possible.
One day the reality will dawn.
We have voted to Leave.

Brexit means Brexit

Think we're going round in circles on this one! The only position determined by the referendum was leaving the EU......


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Burying your head in the sand,hoping it will all go away is not going round in circles.

 

[biddles911]

Control of immigration was just one of the factors of casting your vote whether to Remain or Leave,

If you are going to take the stance that .....but oh it wasnt specifically asked so its not an important factor,where will your stance end?
lets negotiate to allow laws to be continued to be made in Brussels.......wasnt specifically asked was it.
lets negotiate to keep the EU courts as the prime court.......wasnt specifically asked was it
sod it lets negotiate to join even closer,set up a EU army,ditch the pound and join the Euro.......no one specifically mentioned these points on the ballot paper did they

The vote was Remain or Leave The EU with all the consequences that come with either vote,as widely discussed EVERYWHERE.

Im sure you really know this,but you are just one more remainer trying to throw a stick in the spokes and keep everything delayed for as long as possible.
One day the reality will dawn.
We have voted to Leave.

Brexit means Brexit



Burying your head in the sand,hoping it will all go away is not going round in circles.

Don't think any sticks that you or I might throw will make any difference to the outcome.

I'm simply making the point that the politicians can interpret the result pretty much any way they want.

Brexit means Brexit!


Good sound bite but neither you nor anyone else knows what that means unfortunately?


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[GT49er]

It still amazes me how people could vote leave for something they had no idea what the outcome of that vote would be. At least a remain vote meant the status quo would be maintained.

That is total bollox - and to be fair, the Remain campaign never actually said it. The EU is not, never was and never will be, a static organisation. Nobody knows what ideas they will come up with next (and any powers of veto we might have had would be severely eroded by a vote to meekly accept remaining in the EU). So for anyone accusing Brexiters of voting with no idea of the outcome should first remove the plank from their own eyes; they didn't have a clue what the outcome of remain would be either.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Jesus this thread is getting depressing again.

We have voted 52 - 48 in a NON BINDING ADVISORY referendum to leave the EU. That is a fact, not a Remain position.

There will be a new Prime Minister chosen from candidates who have said publicly they will negotiate to control immigration. That is is a fact, not a Leave position.

No one has yet given a definite time when they will exercise Article 50. That is a fact not a Remain positon.

Once it is exercised there are two years in which to negotiate a leaving position. That is fact, not a Remain or Leave position.

Negotiate means just that. Whatever your starting position is never ends up being your end position. Ask anyone who's ever done some serious negotiating.

That negotiating will probably end up in the usual fudge. That Is my opinion only from a position of someone who voted Remain but accepts the vote did not go my way.

 

[pastafarian]

Don't think any sticks that you or I might throw will make any difference to the outcome.

I'm simply making the point that the politicians can interpret the result pretty much any way they want.

Brexit means Brexit!


Good sound bite but neither you nor anyone else knows what that means unfortunately?


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It means Leave the EU
It doesnt mean stay and wiggle it about a bit.

you will work it out soon enough

 

[nicko31]

Clarkson's on the right track...

http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk...nd-referendum-on-the-european-union-1-7995719

"Today lots of people — me included — are suggesting there should be a second vote on this whole Europe business, but we’re told by people in suits that this is not possible. And when we ask why, they say: “Because you just can’t.”

"Why not? Where in the constitution does it say we must abide by the result of a plebiscite, no matter how moronic that result might be? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything in fact because we don’t really have a constitution in Britain. So we can do what happens to be sensible at any given moment. And what is sensible now surely is to hold a vote when everyone is equipped with the most powerful tool in the box: hindsight.

"Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.

"It’s also true to say that a second vote would make us look ridiculous on the world stage. But better to look silly for a short time than to live for ever in a dimly lit, poverty-stricken, festering nest of warts, mud and minority-bashing incidents on the bus home every evening."

He continued: "Yes, 17.4m people voted to leave the EU believing that they’d immediately get their job back from that b****** Latvian at No 24 and that new and exciting trade deals would be done and that the NHS would get £350m a week.

"Better to look silly for a bit than to live for ever in a festering nest of warts, mud and minority-bashing

"But now they have realised that, actually, all the money we save by not being in the EU will have to be spent policing the camps around London’s St Pancras station that will need to be built to house the million Syrians who’ve been ushered onto a train in Paris. And that the fishing quotas won’t change. And that going abroad on holiday will be too time-consuming at the airport and too expensive. And as a result many are ringing Jeremy Vine to say that if they were given their time again, they’d vote to remain.

"This is the problem. We could soon be in the situation where 80% or 90% of the population is lying in the street, covered in weeping sores, begging for a second referendum, and we won’t be able to have one because a man in a suit says: “You just can’t.”

"It’s such a stupid state of affairs that even my hair is angry. I toss and turn at night, beating the pillow with impotent rage as I think how little humanity would have achieved if it had never been given the opportunity to change its mind. And how my kids are going to live miserable lives because our generation was too stubborn and too frightened of looking silly to say: “Let’s try that again.”

 

[Seagull58]

Don't think any sticks that you or I might throw will make any difference to the outcome.

I'm simply making the point that the politicians can interpret the result pretty much any way they want.

Brexit means Brexit!


Good sound bite but neither you nor anyone else knows what that means unfortunately?


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Didn't the months of campaigning leading up to the vote really happen? Was it all a mirage? You are straw clutching in the extreme. You don't even seem to be hearing what the Tory leadership contenders are all saying.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Didn't the months of campaigning leading up to the vote really happen? Was it all a mirage? You are straw clutching in the extreme. You don't even seem to be hearing what the Tory leadership contenders are all saying.

Surely no one is foolish enough to believe any of them anymore, no matter what they say.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Clarkson's on the right track...

http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk...nd-referendum-on-the-european-union-1-7995719

"Today lots of people — me included — are suggesting there should be a second vote on this whole Europe business, but we’re told by people in suits that this is not possible. And when we ask why, they say: “Because you just can’t.”

"Why not? Where in the constitution does it say we must abide by the result of a plebiscite, no matter how moronic that result might be? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything in fact because we don’t really have a constitution in Britain. So we can do what happens to be sensible at any given moment. And what is sensible now surely is to hold a vote when everyone is equipped with the most powerful tool in the box: hindsight.

"Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.

"It’s also true to say that a second vote would make us look ridiculous on the world stage. But better to look silly for a short time than to live for ever in a dimly lit, poverty-stricken, festering nest of warts, mud and minority-bashing incidents on the bus home every evening."

He continued: "Yes, 17.4m people voted to leave the EU believing that they’d immediately get their job back from that b****** Latvian at No 24 and that new and exciting trade deals would be done and that the NHS would get £350m a week.

"Better to look silly for a bit than to live for ever in a festering nest of warts, mud and minority-bashing

"But now they have realised that, actually, all the money we save by not being in the EU will have to be spent policing the camps around London’s St Pancras station that will need to be built to house the million Syrians who’ve been ushered onto a train in Paris. And that the fishing quotas won’t change. And that going abroad on holiday will be too time-consuming at the airport and too expensive. And as a result many are ringing Jeremy Vine to say that if they were given their time again, they’d vote to remain.

"This is the problem. We could soon be in the situation where 80% or 90% of the population is lying in the street, covered in weeping sores, begging for a second referendum, and we won’t be able to have one because a man in a suit says: “You just can’t.”

"It’s such a stupid state of affairs that even my hair is angry. I toss and turn at night, beating the pillow with impotent rage as I think how little humanity would have achieved if it had never been given the opportunity to change its mind. And how my kids are going to live miserable lives because our generation was too stubborn and too frightened of looking silly to say: “Let’s try that again.”

Jeremy Clarkson loses his argument almost immediately as he uses the word 'moronic'. It's basically one long rant as the result was not the one he liked. I am so disgusted that so many of my fellow voters don't care one hoot about a democratic vote.

 

[Seagull58]

Clarkson's on the right track...

http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk...nd-referendum-on-the-european-union-1-7995719

"Today lots of people — me included — are suggesting there should be a second vote on this whole Europe business, but we’re told by people in suits that this is not possible. And when we ask why, they say: “Because you just can’t.”

"Why not? Where in the constitution does it say we must abide by the result of a plebiscite, no matter how moronic that result might be? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything in fact because we don’t really have a constitution in Britain. So we can do what happens to be sensible at any given moment. And what is sensible now surely is to hold a vote when everyone is equipped with the most powerful tool in the box: hindsight.

"Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.

"It’s also true to say that a second vote would make us look ridiculous on the world stage. But better to look silly for a short time than to live for ever in a dimly lit, poverty-stricken, festering nest of warts, mud and minority-bashing incidents on the bus home every evening."

He continued: "Yes, 17.4m people voted to leave the EU believing that they’d immediately get their job back from that b****** Latvian at No 24 and that new and exciting trade deals would be done and that the NHS would get £350m a week.

"Better to look silly for a bit than to live for ever in a festering nest of warts, mud and minority-bashing

"But now they have realised that, actually, all the money we save by not being in the EU will have to be spent policing the camps around London’s St Pancras station that will need to be built to house the million Syrians who’ve been ushered onto a train in Paris. And that the fishing quotas won’t change. And that going abroad on holiday will be too time-consuming at the airport and too expensive. And as a result many are ringing Jeremy Vine to say that if they were given their time again, they’d vote to remain.

"This is the problem. We could soon be in the situation where 80% or 90% of the population is lying in the street, covered in weeping sores, begging for a second referendum, and we won’t be able to have one because a man in a suit says: “You just can’t.”

"It’s such a stupid state of affairs that even my hair is angry. I toss and turn at night, beating the pillow with impotent rage as I think how little humanity would have achieved if it had never been given the opportunity to change its mind. And how my kids are going to live miserable lives because our generation was too stubborn and too frightened of looking silly to say: “Let’s try that again.”

"TV motormouth Clarkson", speaking for nobody but himself.

 

[Soulman]

Jeremy Clarkson loses his argument almost immediately as he uses the word 'moronic'. It's basically one long rant as the result was not the one he liked. I am so disgusted that so many of my fellow voters don't care one hoot about a democratic vote.

Yep.

 

[beorhthelm]

A lower pound with predictions of settling at $1.24 which means higher oil costs, so higher fuel, higher distribution costs, more expensive imports
The downgrading of London as the financial capital, so more job losses

i know you like to talk down the prospects, but can i just highlight that oil and import costs do not impact the London's financial services as they do not need distribution and will be many markets will denominated in $ anyway. it also improves the profits of companies with overseas business. not sure what companies are saying they need to move data processing to EU, most low end jobs have been offshored over the past decade anyway, data and jobs do not need to be in the same country or even continent.

 

[studio150]

Lying Remain camp responsible for eruption of racism
The entire Remain campaign was based on a pack of lies. Most of the scares have already been exposed. But by haunting immigrants with fears of being deported, and thus whipping up race-based hysteria, they have one last card to play in their shameful effort to smash the democratic will of the people.
Keep your eye on the ball. Every lie, every distortion, every piece of scaremongering from the EU Remain camp is aimed at one thing: to overturn the result of a free and fair referendum of the British people on our membership of the European Union.

These scoundrels will stop at nothing, as we saw during the campaign itself. And if, in order to smash the will of the people, they have to whip up such a frenzy that there is an outbreak of xenophobia and even racism, their attitude is this: so be it.
Make no mistake about it. They're sowing fear and division in order to create a pretext for either running another referendum or, better still, getting parliament to ignore the one we've just had.
Think about it. Even after a full Brexit, Britain will still have one of the most liberal immigration policies in the world. Indeed, it will be far more liberal than the European Union's which blatantly discriminates in favour of a predominantly Caucasian Europe and against a predominantly non-Caucasian world.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6362/lying_remain_camp_responsible_for_eruption_of_racism

The biggest load if rubbish in the entire thread id you believe remain voters are responsible for the increase in racism.

Even by your normal standards of hiding the truth this is truly worthy of an award in the land of make believe

 

[studio150]

I dont accept that, if you are Nisson (for sake of argument) how do you know if the EU doesnt think its Estonia's turn, France's or Belgiums turn to have a factory in one of their own depressed cities, at least now we can compete on our own terms and be more competitive, its our shout to negotiate for ourselves.

How are we going to be more competitive and what about thw UK economy with an increase in unemployment less investment higher fuel and distribution costs.

 

[Soulman]

The biggest load if rubbish in the entire thread id you believe remain voters are responsible for the increase in racism.

What?......not sure what you are on about, should i agree or disagree.....is it me or "you"

 

[beorhthelm]

which one of the Tory hopefuls to take the PM job do you think will go against the referendum vote and negotiate to keep free movement?

Theresa May
“I’m going to set out my negotiating principles in more detail in the coming weeks. But as I said on Thursday, there is clearly no mandate for a deal that involves accepting the free movement of people as it has worked until now. We must regain more control of the numbers of people who come here from Europe, and reduce the numbers that come from outside Europe too. We need immigration to be sustainable and I think net migration in the tens of thousands is sustainable, but it is going to take time.”

Andrea Leadsom
“I absolutely promise to end free movement but the net migration numbers will depend on what is in the UK’s interests.”

Stephen Crabb
“On this issue the British people have been clear. Ending the current free movement arrangements will be a red line in my negotiations.”

these three will, they've all given qualified answers allowing some wiggle room.

 

[portslade seagull]

The biggest load if rubbish in the entire thread id you believe remain voters are responsible for the increase in racism.

Even by your normal standards of hiding the truth this is truly worthy of an award in the land of make believe

But who's shouting racists the loudest, the remain camp in a desperate bid to slur anybody who dared vote the other way which is a very poor show really when that is there only argument

 

[yxee]

How are we going to be more competitive and what about thw UK economy with an increase in unemployment less investment higher fuel and distribution costs.

Such a scattergun of half-baked economic theories.

Weaker pound = more competetive exports = boost to UK producers.