[Politics] Brexit

[Weststander]

I didn't know that.

I knew that Brexit has made us all poorer, but our economy 5% smaller due to Brexit? That's obscene.

And there are still people defending it? Indefensible.

Patriots?

 

[Eric the meek]

Patriots?

#saltoftheearth
#fooledbyabus

 

[Machiavelli]

I'snt the EU falling apart with France and Germany turning into basket cases? Falling even farther behind the US with over regulation and growing social unrest?

Yes lets rejoin the basket case club rather than developing some sane economic policies.

Yes, that's right Dingo. That nice Nigel Farage stood outside parliament on 24 June 2016 and said that it would collapse like a line of dominos now the public has woken up (aka gone woke). Remind us of how many countries have left the EU since.

 

[Crawley Dingo]

Yes, that's right Dingo. That nice Nigel Farage stood outside parliament on 24 June 2016 and said that it would collapse like a line of dominos now the public has woken up (aka gone woke). Remind us of how many countries have left the EU since.

yes as I said things are going great.

 

[Randy McNob]

Georgians are rioting in the streets to join the EU

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'snt the EU falling apart with France and Germany turning into basket cases? Falling even farther behind the US with over regulation and growing social unrest?

Yes lets rejoin the basket case club rather than developing some sane economic policies.

Whisper it quietly, but the truth is France and Germany loved the UK being in the EU because it gave the EU a bigger market and broader reach, and now that we are out dark forces are at work re Frexit and Dexit.

It was an incredible achievement for peace and prosperity to bring 27 nations together under one banner. Now, there is nothing Russia and China would like better for it to fragment into individual nation states with individual currencies.

Ukraine, Georgia, Turkey would love EU membership. I can understand why.

 

[Lever]

I'snt the EU falling apart with France and Germany turning into basket cases? Falling even farther behind the US with over regulation and growing social unrest?

Yes lets rejoin the basket case club rather than developing some sane economic policies.

Apparently the EU has been in imminent danger of falling apart for the past 3084 days. Haven't you got a bit tired of waiting in Crawley?
On the other hand our great country has taken hit after hit over the same period of time. Haven't you got bored of your vacuous rallying cry?
and....

Shouldn't we be in the sunny uplands by now anyway?

Adjust your mindset; you are the basket case.

 

[nicko31]

Yes, that's right Dingo. That nice Nigel Farage stood outside parliament on 24 June 2016 and said that it would collapse like a line of dominos now the public has woken up (aka gone woke). Remind us of how many countries have left the EU since.

For Farage Brexit was like 2 world wars and one world cup in one. Yet he never mentions it. Why?

 

[Lever]

For Farage Brexit was like 2 world wars and one world cup in one. Yet he never mentions it. Why?

I don't know of course but apparently we were winners in the World Wars and one World Cup. We are losers in Brexit.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I didn't know that.

I knew that Brexit has made us all poorer, but our economy 5% smaller due to Brexit? That's obscene.

And there are still people defending it? Indefensible.

And untrue, of course. Obviously there is scope for believing that the Tories would have managed the economy far better than the German and French governments, but it's a thin argument. And the Goldman Sachs theory that lack of immigration from the EU has cost us, because non-EU immigrants are less productive that EU immigrants, seems tenuous at best.

If Goldman Sachs had considered total exports rather than just goods exports, they might have come up with different figures.

 

[Eric the meek]

And untrue, of course. Obviously there is scope for believing that the Tories would have managed the economy far better than the German and French governments, but it's a thin argument. And the Goldman Sachs theory that lack of immigration from the EU has cost us, because non-EU immigrants are less productive that EU immigrants, seems tenuous at best.

If Goldman Sachs had considered total exports rather than just goods exports, they might have come up with different figures.

'a thin argument'.
'seems tenuous at best'.
'might have come up with different figures'.

Well, that's the comeback from the Brexit lot then.

 

[dsr-burnley]

'a thin argument'.
'seems tenuous at best'.
'might have come up with different figures'.

Well, that's the comeback from the Brexit lot then.

It's hard to refute the figures in detail because they didn't provide any detail. There compared the UK economy to one or more similar economies, but won't say who. Obviously we were way behind the US economy but that can't be put down to leaving the EU.

 

[WATFORD zero]

And untrue, of course. Obviously there is scope for believing that the Tories would have managed the economy far better than the German and French governments, but it's a thin argument. And the Goldman Sachs theory that lack of immigration from the EU has cost us, because non-EU immigrants are less productive that EU immigrants, seems tenuous at best.

If Goldman Sachs had considered total exports rather than just goods exports, they might have come up with different figures.

The huge majority of experts in the economics, financial, business, investment, trade and various other sectors who have all the relevant details on which their figures are based, believe the losses to be in the region of 5% GDP, in exactly the same way as the vast majority of them predicted losses from a 'negotiated' Brexit would be in the region of 4-6% of GDP.

But, of course, you wouldn't know any of that, if you decided that you'd had enough of experts and ran around with your fingers in you ears shouting 'project fear'

 

[Machiavelli]

It's hard to refute the figures in detail because they didn't provide any detail. There compared the UK economy to one or more similar economies, but won't say who. Obviously we were way behind the US economy but that can't be put down to leaving the EU.

I'm sure you'll do a cracking job of refuting these ones:

British food exports to EU ‘have fallen £3bn a year since Brexit’

Centre for Inclusive Trade Policy report finds trade flows have shown no signs of returning to previous levels

www.theguardian.com

 

[Eric the meek]

It's hard to refute the figures in detail because they didn't provide any detail. There compared the UK economy to one or more similar economies, but won't say who. Obviously we were way behind the US economy but that can't be put down to leaving the EU.

But you refuted them anyway. That's so Brexit isn't it?

 

[dsr-burnley]

The huge majority of experts in the economics, financial, business, investment, trade and various other sectors who have all the relevant details on which their figures are based, believe the losses to be in the region of 5% GDP, in exactly the same way as the vast majority of them predicted losses from a 'negotiated' Brexit would be in the region of 4-6% of GDP.

But, of course, you wouldn't know any of that, if you decided that you'd had enough of experts and ran around with your fingers in you ears shouting 'project fear'

In 2019, the last full year before we left the EU, our GDP was $122 billion ahead of France's. In 2023, it was $303 billion. Goldman Sachs are arguing it should have been $470 billion.

Goods exports to the EU made up approx 7% of the UK's GDP. Intuitively, it is nonsense that changing the terms and conditions of trade with the EU will cost almost as much as the total value of the goods trade, which has dropped by about 10% (though the general reduction in manufacturing in this country has a lot to do with high energy prices and the general move to service industries as well as Brexit).

If Goldman Sachs want their figures to be believed, by some of us, they could perhaps produce some details so they can be checked.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I'm sure you'll do a cracking job of refuting these ones:

British food exports to EU ‘have fallen £3bn a year since Brexit’

Centre for Inclusive Trade Policy report finds trade flows have shown no signs of returning to previous levels

www.theguardian.com

Total food production is increasing. If exports to the EU are reducing, then the difference is either being exported elsewhere or retained in the UK for domestic consumption, so I don't really see how it matters.

 

[dsr-burnley]

But you refuted them anyway. That's so Brexit isn't it?

Is it your contention that if the detail isn't provided, we must accept the conclusions?

 

[Eric the meek]

Is it your contention that if the detail isn't provided, we must accept the conclusions?

No, it is my contention that you rejected the detail, without knowing what it was.

 

[dsr-burnley]

No, it is my contention that you rejected the detail, without knowing what it was.

I rejected the conclusions without knowing what the detail was. The alternative, of course, would be to ignore the whole survey because we don't know what the detail was. That might be the best option.