[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

Just done the same. And agree, we along with everyone else here has to deal with the consequences and move on whatever we feel about it.

Someone after my own heart, we do indeed need to deal with the consequences and move on. After all we haven't even been out for 2 years yet (you can hardly count 'The Transition Period).

As you rightfully say, there are obviously a few consequences we need to deal with and probably the most pressing is finding a solution to the Northern Ireland Protocol which we put forward, negotiated, and signed off as a significant part of the Brexit deal and are now unable to implement.

Personally, I'm not sure Truss's plan to trigger Article 16, break International Law, ditch the Good deal that Johnson negotiated and leave us facing a Trade War with the EU is the best way to deal with consequences. I can't see that would help us move on in any way and would probably be a huge step backwards.

Maybe you have a suggestion for a solution for us to avoid this and allow us to move on. If we can resolve this then we can start to look at the issues with putting Import controls in place (JRM's Act of Self Harm, the big drama queen ), addressing the soaring Channel Immigration problem and getting a trade deal with the US.

Obviously this wouldn't deal with all the consequences but I'm sure if we could move on with these it would leave far less for people to moan about. Then we could concentrate on dealing with the economic consequences

 

[Machiavelli]

It could be regarded as childish, but it can be a more realistic comment meaning move on. I would think it's unlikely we will have any sort of vote about re-joining, so for the immediate future maybe it would be better than arguing about the situation we now find ourselves in. There again, who knows what may happen, we have had covid and Ukraine since and they weren't all that predictable.

Yes, I don't think there's any appetite for an imminent referendum, and agree with @Simster that the polls will need to be consistently showing a 2/3 majority for re-joining for at least a year before it's even contemplated.
But, then again, the Brexit vote overturned the 1975 vote to stay, which had a two-thirds majority, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility to have a vote to re-join.
If you really want 'growth, growth, growth' (and I'm not sure I do), the surest way to do it would be to rejoin the Customs Union and Single Market, all of which could be achieved in the next few years. The charlatans will bang on about betrayal, but with things about to get worse, pretty sure the majority will get behind that move.

 

[Weststander]

Would the French in particular have us back?

Would the EU accept a lesser partnership as they do with Norway and Switzerland.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Someone after my own heart, we do indeed need to deal with the consequences and move on. After all we haven't even been out for 2 years yet (you can hardly count 'The Transition Period).

As you rightfully say, there are obviously a few consequences we need to deal with and probably the most pressing is finding a solution to the Northern Ireland Protocol which we put forward, negotiated, and signed off as a significant part of the Brexit deal and are now unable to implement.

Personally, I'm not sure Truss's plan to trigger Article 16, break International Law, ditch the Good deal that Johnson negotiated and leave us facing a Trade War with the EU is the best way to deal with consequences. I can't see that would help us move on in any way and would probably be a huge step backwards.

Maybe you have a suggestion for a solution for us to avoid this and allow us to move on. If we can resolve this then we can start to look at the issues with putting Import controls in place (JRM's Act of Self Harm, the big drama queen ), addressing the soaring Channel Immigration problem and getting a trade deal with the US.

Obviously this wouldn't deal with all the consequences but I'm sure if we could move on with these it would leave far less for people to moan about. Then we could concentrate on dealing with the economic consequences

Notwithstanding the 'clever' nature of your post, when I say we're in need of moving on, I simply do not think moaning about Brexit will help anyone. Whether we should have voted in or out, it has coincided with the worst economic and political situations since the second world war. Brexit in this instance is nothing short of a disaster. In some other universe, there perhaps exists an instance where these situations didn't have such unhappy confluence. As we are stuck in this version, we need to move on.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Notwithstanding the 'clever' nature of your post, when I say we're in bed of moving on, I simply do not think moaning about Brexit will help anyone. Whether we should have voted in or out, it has coincided with the worst economic and political situations since the second world war. Brexit in this instance is nothing short of a disaster. In some other universe, there perhaps exists an instance where these situations didn't have such unhappy confluence. As we are stuck in this version, we need to move on.

At the end of the day, although some aspects of my answer may have been slightly tongue in cheek, I do agree that we need to move on and in order to do this we really have to resolve any issues arising.

The NIP worries me as the way it is being pushed at the moment can only end in trashing the whole agreement and a subsequent trade war, which would be disastrous for us and the EU. I can't see a solution, I was asking if you could suggest anything ?

 

[Simster]

Would the French in particular have us back?

Would the EU accept a lesser partnership as they do with Norway and Switzerland.

I don't think anyone would want us back, tbh. But an arrangement where we pay for access to the CU and SM? Well yes, they'd agree to that. And that's what I think will happen once that consistent 2 thirds polling majority is reached in a decade or so. It's just a shame that the crooks who lied and ran the leave campaign have pissed away the incredible deal our leaders from Thatcher onwards had worked so hard to negotiate.

I just ignore the "get over it, move on" crowd. I'll move on by marching and campaigning to get us back in and restore our international standing.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Would the French in particular have us back?

Would the EU accept a lesser partnership as they do with Norway and Switzerland.

I think trying to get back in would be a disaster (we haven't even been out 2 years FFS ).

Whether we re-join the Customs Union is another kettle of poisson completely. And, as far as I'm aware, it's the only solution to the NIP issue that has been suggested by anyone on any of the 125K posts on this thread because there is certainly no one in Government who has a solution

(And obviously resolves the Import controls and significantly effects the economic issues, but these are secondary to the NI problem)

 

[Weststander]

I think trying to get back in would be a disaster (we haven't even been out 2 years FFS ).

Whether we re-join the Customs Union is another kettle of poisson completely.

Genuinely, I can’t remember from the years of chaos.

Did the EU in effect block us from entering a Customs Union during the negotiations?

 

[Weststander]

I don't think anyone would want us back, tbh. But an arrangement where we pay for access to the CU and SM? Well yes, they'd agree to that. And that's what I think will happen once that consistent 2 thirds polling majority is reached in a decade or so. It's just a shame that the crooks who lied and ran the leave campaign have pissed away the incredible deal our leaders from Thatcher onwards had worked so hard to negotiate.

I just ignore the "get over it, move on" crowd. I'll move on by marching and campaigning to get us back in and restore our international standing.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

At the end of the day, although some aspects of my answer may have been slightly tongue in cheek, I do agree that we need to move on and in order to do this we really have to resolve any issues arising.

The NIP worries me as the way it is being pushed at the moment can only end in trashing the whole agreement and a subsequent trade war, which would be disastrous for us and the EU. I can't see a solution, I was asking if you could suggest anything ?

Haha, going StarWars here, 'it's a trap'.

The little I know of the NI agreement leads me to think that it was agreed simply with the purpose of tying things up quickly to make everything more neat and convenient. It was always my belief that it wouldn't work and that it had sold the unionists down the river. So no. I have nothing, most of the time, post Brexit arrangements have been truly inept, by this inept government.

 

[rogersix]

I think trying to get back in would be a disaster (we haven't even been out 2 years FFS ).

Whether we re-join the Customs Union is another kettle of poisson completely. And, as far as I'm aware, it's the only solution to the NIP issue that has been suggested by anyone on any of the 125K posts on this thread because there is certainly no one in Government who has a solution

(And obviously resolves the Import controls and significantly effects the economic issues, but these are secondary to the NI problem)

joy shall be in heaven o'er one sinner that repenteth

 

[WATFORD zero]

Genuinely, I can’t remember from the years of chaos.

Did the EU in effect block us from entering a Customs Union during the negotiations?

Definitely not. I believe the EU would have been delighted had we stayed in the Customs Union, but Boris and co had other ideas.

 

[Weststander]

….

 

[Weststander]

I don't think anyone would want us back, tbh. But an arrangement where we pay for access to the CU and SM? Well yes, they'd agree to that. And that's what I think will happen once that consistent 2 thirds polling majority is reached in a decade or so. It's just a shame that the crooks who lied and ran the leave campaign have pissed away the incredible deal our leaders from Thatcher onwards had worked so hard to negotiate.

I just ignore the "get over it, move on" crowd. I'll move on by marching and campaigning to get us back in and restore our international standing.

I was consistently a (non-zealot) Remainer. Firstly for economic reasons, no borders with our closest markets.
Less so because, in increasingly dangerous world, we should cherish our allies and friends. Or to put it another way, the cnt twins Putin and Trump loved Brexit. This has been made ever clearer by the attempt to blow Ukrainians to bits and steal their sovereign lands.

Macron’s a divisive figure in France and possibly/probably a bit fly, but he did two great things recently I thought which were kind of little commented on - a heartfelt message over the Queen’s passing and then a great diplomatic response when Tory candidate Truss made that cringey “Jury’s Out” comment on Macron. Entente Cordiale and all that, free Europe should be edging closer together more than ever.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Haha, going StarWars here, 'it's a trap'.

The little I know of the NI agreement leads me to think that it was agreed simply with the purpose of tying things up quickly to make everything more neat and convenient. It was always my belief that it wouldn't work and that it had sold the unionists down the river. So no. I have nothing, most of the time, post Brexit arrangements have been truly inept, by this inept government.

Definitely not a trap

I have always believed that there had to be a border between the EU and Britain if we were to leave the Customs Union. It couldn't be put on the Island of Ireland because of the GFA, so Johnson's solution was to put it in the Irish Sea.

I'm not sure there was anyone who thought it would work, so on that we are in full agreement. However, without being facetious, we do have to deal with it if and come up with a solution in order to move on. As I have said, apart from joining the Customs Union, I have never been able to see a solution to this particular problem

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Definitely not a trap

I have always believed that there had to be a border between the EU and Britain if we were to leave the Customs Union. It couldn't be put on the Island of Ireland because of the GFA, so Johnson's solution was to put it in the Irish Sea.

I'm not sure there was anyone who thought it would work, so on that we are in full agreement. However, without being facetious, we do have to deal with it if and come up with a solution in order to move on. As I have said, apart from joining the Customs Union, I have never been able to see a solution to this particular problem

In the long term, disregarding possible violent opposition, NI will likely cede from the UK and join the rest of Ireland.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I was consistently a (non-zealot) Remainer. Firstly for economic reasons, no borders with our closest markets.
Less so because, in increasingly dangerous world, we should cherish our allies and friends. Or to put it another way, the cnt twins Putin and Trump loved Brexit. This has been made ever clearer by the attempt to blow Ukrainians to bits and steal their sovereign lands.

Macron’s a divisive figure in France and possibly/probably a bit fly, but he did two great things recently I thought which were kind of little commented on - a heartfelt message over the Queen’s passing and then a great diplomatic response when Tory candidate Truss made that cringey “Jury’s Out” comment on Macron. Entente Cordiale and all that, free Europe should be edging closer together more than ever.

I wouldn't trust the French, or the Germans

Because, just like us, they were trying to get the maximum benefits from the EU for their respective states. And, over the last 40 years I thought that various British Governments of all political hues had made a bloody good job of exactly that. Not only were we one of the big 3 but I believe we had a better deal than France of Germany, but that is just history now

So, back to moving forward, what do we do about the NIP before the bloody thing destroys the Brexit deal we do have

 

[WATFORD zero]

In the long term, disregarding possible violent opposition, NI will likely cede from the UK and join the rest of Ireland.

That would certainly resolve the issue, as you say ignoring all opposition, but can you see that happening before Truss triggers article 16 ?

 

[Simster]

There is literally only one solution to resolving NI and that is what you said a couple of posts ago - we HAVE to rejoin the CU. There is no other solution.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

That would certainly resolve the issue, as you say ignoring all opposition, but can you see that happening before Truss triggers article 16 ?

Of course not. All our options in the current circumstances seem to confound us.