[Politics] Brexit

[dsr-burnley]

Whilst that may be technically correct, both sides of the border are controlled by EU Member States. Travel across land borders between the Republic of France, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, and other neighbouring states like Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg was always hassle free and involved open borders many years before anyone conceived of Schengen.

So, putting pedantry aside, my point stands,. Why would you expect there to be any kerfuffle crossing that border, and how is it comparable to Dover in 2022?

I wouldn't expect there to be any kerfuffle crossing that border, because I would expect both sides to exercise pragmatism and to use the exemptions permitted by EU rules to cut down the bureaucracy to the minimum necessary (in this case, none at all). That's been the point all along. They are not legally obliged to carry out all these checks on return tickets and cash in hand and so on, so if they do make these checks it's because (for whatever reason) they have decided the UK gets maximum security checks.

 

[LamieRobertson]

As I said, it was just Friday when French workers were delayed coming out of the Tunnel to get to Dover.

The booths were fully manned on Sat and Sun and still queues.

Yes ..that does appear to be the case.

 

[Eric the meek]

If I can get into the EU without the bureaucracy implemented by the French, then its France I would avoid.

https://www.madeira-web.com/en/news/fast-track-entry-uk-tourists-to-portugal.html

According to travel adviser Paul Charles, CEO of the PC Agency, "Portugal is obviously leading the way in recognising that they have to process vast numbers of British visitors as seamlessly as possible, otherwise there would be long queues this summer."

People have a choice, just like the EU countries do. Welcome UK tourists like Portugal or piss them off like France. The irony of course is that the queues of people getting through Dover to head down to their villas in the languadoc or la plage will be petit bourgeois remainers in the first place.

Double bubble…..

I refer you to my previous comment.

No amount of writing about a Portuguese airport will make it relevant to the port of Dover. Different country, different clientele, different volumes, different mode of transport, different operation of the border, different country in which the physical border is in, different implementation of the rules, different means of passenger throughput (walking vs. driving). The list goes on.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

If I can get into the EU without the bureaucracy implemented by the French, then its France I would avoid.

https://www.madeira-web.com/en/news/fast-track-entry-uk-tourists-to-portugal.htmlj

According to travel adviser Paul Charles, CEO of the PC Agency, "Portugal is obviously leading the way in recognising that they have to process vast numbers of British visitors as seamlessly as possible, otherwise there would be long queues this summer."

People have a choice, just like the EU countries do. Welcome UK tourists like Portugal or piss them off like France. The irony of course is that the queues of people getting through Dover to head down to their villas in the languadoc or la plage will be petit bourgeois remainers in the first place.

Double bubble…..

When will people like you realise that it’s not France’s fault? How many UK tourists does Portugal deal with compared to France? What percentage of UK travellers to France go through Dover?
Last weekend and the chaos at Dover was always on the cards. Why would the French want to upset us when the tourism from the UK is important to them? I’ve already said elsewhere we had a 2.5 week holiday in France in June and were warmly welcomed everywhere we went.
And is Liz Truss going to solve anything by stridently blaming the French? The French wouldn’t be bullied, but are more likely to sit down and have a reasonable conversation. Perhaps an appropriate expression would be “won’t be druv”.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If I can get into the EU without the bureaucracy implemented by the French, then its France I would avoid.

https://www.madeira-web.com/en/news/fast-track-entry-uk-tourists-to-portugal.html

According to travel adviser Paul Charles, CEO of the PC Agency, "Portugal is obviously leading the way in recognising that they have to process vast numbers of British visitors as seamlessly as possible, otherwise there would be long queues this summer."

People have a choice, just like the EU countries do. Welcome UK tourists like Portugal or piss them off like France. The irony of course is that the queues of people getting through Dover to head down to their villas in the languadoc or la plage will be petit bourgeois remainers in the first place.

Double bubble…..

Your irony example is about as convincing as Alanis Morrisette only finding a spoon.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Your irony example is about as convincing as Alanis Morrisette only finding a fork.

She found 20000 Spoons when she wanted a knife. I'm guessing she used a fork to stab her ex in the face in guessing when she wrote "You outta know"

 

[Mackenzie]

If I can get into the EU without the bureaucracy implemented by the French, then its France I would avoid.

https://www.madeira-web.com/en/news/fast-track-entry-uk-tourists-to-portugal.html

According to travel adviser Paul Charles, CEO of the PC Agency, "Portugal is obviously leading the way in recognising that they have to process vast numbers of British visitors as seamlessly as possible, otherwise there would be long queues this summer."

People have a choice, just like the EU countries do. Welcome UK tourists like Portugal or piss them off like France. The irony of course is that the queues of people getting through Dover to head down to their villas in the languadoc or la plage will be petit bourgeois remainers in the first place.

Double bubble…..

And those guys should have your sympathy, it’s not their mess.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Much of the conversation so far has been related to passport checks but what about bio-security going forward

The UK seem very keen to deregulate food standards and sign trade deal with countries that has dubious practices and standards

They do not want to risk their agri-food sector. The days of loading up at Tescos before a French camping trip will soon be over

They are already over. I gave the rest of our milk and butter to our neighbours last year before we set off. The cold meat such as ham too. We then had to stock up at the Super U when we arrived.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Incidentally, nobody was overly bothered until it affected cars. Lorries have been in enormous queues since January 2021

[tweet]1551900415540826112[/tweet]

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Chaos at Dover ?

Perhaps this is the sort of Chaos we would have got under Ed Miliband ?

 

[rogersix]

I agree on sitting down with them, but I think it goes far wider than a bit of tit for tat, that needs sorting out, could millwall and West ham supporters sit around the table and sort things out over 10 pints of stellar
Not sure there will every be much movement on either side.

Are we millwall or west ham?

 

[Wozza]

I was proposing that, on one side, the EU gets free access to the UK market, and on the other side, the UK gets free access to the EU market. It isn't all benefit one way. It's mutual benefit.

EU population: 448m
UK population: 67m

... and a free-trade deal would be of "mutual benefit"?!

 

[Simster]

The evidence for Germany is that it is one of the poorer adherents to the demands of the single market….

https://single-market-scoreboard.ec.europa.eu/governance-tools/infringements_en

What a racket eh?

Yeah the French, economic powerhouse and glorious history innit……bonnet du douche Rodney.

It seems to have the 4th highest number of infringements yet by far the highest population. Per capita, it is WAY down - maybe even half way or lower.

Is the bullshit something you've learnt from cosying up with your new chums, the Tory Brexiteers, or were you a complete bullshitter before 2016?

 

[virtual22]

If your first paragraph is a wind-up, then you've got a thumbs up from me!

But in case it isn't, freedom of movement has ceased both ways. Why did you vote for taking back control of our borders, but are then indignant when you discover the EU already does the same thing?
Isn't that your fault for not realising it? Or is it someone else's fault?

Here is a list of checks the French border control now have to do, as well as stamping each passport:

(taken from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/62294901)

checking the identity page
checking the traveller hasn't been to the EU for more than 90 days in the last 180 days
checking if you have at least 3 months left on your passport
checking that your passport is issued less than 10 years before the date you enter the country
checking the traveller has a return ticket
checking proof of insurance for your trip
asking whether the traveller has enough money to stay
Checking each person can take up to a minute, rather than a few seconds, transport expert Simon Calder told BBC Breakfast.

Your second paragraph is for another discussion. Let's stay focused on the chaos at Dover.

Edit - I gave you a thumbs up for answering. Thank you.

It's interesting as we went to the US in May for the first time since Covid. Historically it's always been a bit of a ball ache getting through imigration, this time though there were no longer the green forms to fill out and no stamping of the passport, just a cursory swipe and question re business or pleasure. He then handed back the passports and said thanks. I asked him are you going to stamp them and he said we don't do that anymore, it's all done electronically now before you even get on the plane!

Given how the US have histrocially been pretty thorough with their border checks it makes me wonder why most of the stuff on your list isn't done electronically before you leave home? Then they swipe the passport, it's green if everything checks out, if not you get moved to the further checks queue, pretty much exactly what was happening in the US? Clearly the technology is there and being used already.

 

[Simster]

I was proposing that, on one side, the EU gets free access to the UK market, and on the other side, the UK gets free access to the EU market. It isn't all benefit one way. It's mutual benefit.

You seem to be struggling with the concept of what a single market means because that proposal is pure pie in the sky.

We left the single market. What that means is that now, for example, we can choose to chlorinate our chicken because it makes chicken farming nice and cheap. This in turn means that because we have the ability to undercut EU farmers using revolting farming methods that don't come up to standard, the EU now need to check everything that comes through the port and ensure it isn't sold in the bloc.

The same thing applies to literally everything. The only exception is goods, which are currently tariff-free. Why is that, when we have the potential to undercut EU goods by not enforcing a minimum wage? Well it's simple - we don't make an awful lot anymore, but we import a lot goods from the EU. So the EU has taken the position that this is a price worth paying because they sell so many more goods to us than the other way round. Funnily enough though, that isn't extended to services - which we export in far greater numbers. Massive tariffs on those I'm afraid.

It doesn't really feel like we hold all the cards, does it?

 

[dsr-burnley]

EU population: 448m
UK population: 67m

... and a free-trade deal would be of "mutual benefit"?!

I don't know the size of Sainsbury's finances compared with the size of mine, but I;ll be going there tonight to make a free trade transaction that will have mutual benefit. Just because one party is smaller than the other doesn't mean that a deal can't be good for both parties.

 

[Stat Brother]

Why does this basic shite still need explaining to people?


Sure today it seems to be one particular poster who hasn't got a fudging clue, but tomorrow it'll be another.


The Remain Campaign was absolutely piss poor.


To this day and going forward so many people still haven't got a clue what they voted for, and still think they can bend the world (EU) to conform to us.


Beggars belief.

 

[Simster]

I don't know the size of Sainsbury's finances compared with the size of mine, but I;ll be going there tonight to make a free trade transaction that will have mutual benefit. Just because one party is smaller than the other doesn't mean that a deal can't be good for both parties.

What are you selling to Sainsbury's then?

 

[Stat Brother]

What are you selling to Sainsbury's then?

What ever it is it'll be a drop in the ocean to Sainsbury's and if it doesn't work out they'll walk away without noticing any change.
Unlike Billy Goit-Alone, who's business will collapse if Sainsbury's move elsewhere because it's more convenient.

 

[nicko31]

They are already over. I gave the rest of our milk and butter to our neighbours last year before we set off. The cold meat such as ham too. We then had to stock up at the Super U when we arrived.

Is this being policed?

You can see why the EU are so concerned about Ireland, the more time passes, the more time the UK will be considered a food biosecurity threat to the EU

The sad fact is our farmers we will driven out of business by slurry from the rest of world, places where they do what they like.

Thank you Lizz Truss