[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

There has never been one culture in human history anywhere on this planet at anytime that deemed a 17 year old wiser as his/hers elders, not one.

You really are not scared and I am guessing you wont really emigrate, you are not at your pinnacle of your political viewpoint, your just a snapshot of your younger self and you will change as perhaps we all do.

Ultimately you are upset because the majority didnt agree with you, its a little tantrum from a young and immature guy, it will pass, good luck in hiding your sock, I mean in your A levels

I am 44, I have a had far more rational and sensible conversations about Politics with some 18 and 19 year olds than I have with many people of my age and older. I am confident, given the posts of his and yours that I have read, that he would make a more rational decision than you. You also come across as the more immature.

 

[Baldseagull]

And most oldens despise being told we know nothing by youths. Everyone has their own beliefs age and life experiences alter them. When you're young you believe you can change the world. As you age you realise in truth you rarely get the opportunity. This was one, the first since l was able to vote, some 30 years ago.

So you thought about it really carefully, weighed up the pros and cons, ran through best case scenario exit, worse case scenario exit, likely reaction in E.U. etc. and voted out, cos in the end Boris is quite likable but Camerons a ****?

 

[GT49er]

... ... ... and voted out, cos in the end Boris is quite likable but Camerons a ****?

 

[studio150]

It's not about semantics or accountancy figure spin is it?

No it should be about facts

 

[studio150]

Some people can't afford foreign holidays.

You don't say Sherlock

 

[Baldseagull]

Some people can't afford foreign holidays.

Even less now.

 

[Baldseagull]

From what I gather, if we do it over again, the view is the non racist, rational leave voters will riot in the streets. So what me must do is plough ahead with a bad decision and make the best of it. This is likely to involve a deal where we still pay a shedload of cash into the E.U., but now we have to trust our Government to spend the savings on all the good stuff the E.U. gave grants for, still have free movement of labour, but now we are not E.U. citizens so have less rights in Europe, Still have to comply with most of E.U. regulations, which now we have no say in forming, but apparently we have greater sovereignty?
Sounds to me like we get to have all the stuff the Leave campaign said it would get rid of, but none of the benefits we used to have, except maybe we can land a few more fish than they would otherwise allow.

If democracy is the will of the people, I can take that, but when the outcome is not what the people voted for, how is that democracy?

 

[BadFish]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/26/parliament-must-decide-what-brexit-means-in-the-interests-of-the/

This is a good article about what could happen next. As a moderate leave voter much of this would be best case scenario for me.

We must surely have some leverage here, if we leave quietly with a trade deal that protects our economy then we'll stand aside on the political side and the EU can speed up their march to a federal Europe. If there's a very bad deal on the table then article 50 shouldn't be invoked.

People forget opinion on the EU is on a continuum. The referendum was binary. This will naturally give the impression of division, where in reality the vast majority of us believe very similar things, with extreme minorities. It is a shame people forget this, as it could be very alienating to be on the losing side.

This is where things are going to get messy. I would suggest that some people on the extremes of the continuum are not going to be happy about whatever compromise is reached.

Another referendum with all the options spelled out?

 

[BadFish]

Faisal Islam, Sky News Journalist, Says Pro-Brexit MP Told Him ‘Leave Campaign Don’t Have A Plan’

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_576fe22ee4b0d2571149cffd?edition=uk

This has been my perception of what is happening. Does anyone have evidence to the contrary?

 

[BadFish]

If there is any attempt to dilute or reverse the referendum result I can see most of those areas going up in flames which is why it is so important to respect the democratic will of the majority and enact what has been promised.

JC how does that tally with a compromised withdrawal like the one suggested here?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...de-what-brexit-means-in-the-interests-of-the/

Will it be the case that how ever the withdrawal is negotiated some people are going to be disgruntled to some extent?

I am concerned that most people are not going to get what they expected and what will happen as a result of this. The country needs some bloody stunning leadership to negotiate this minefield.

 

[pastafarian]

Lets sort this out right now and get it done with-FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT

was the EU exit vote by referendum a vote and an instruction to the Government to stop free movement of EU nationals into the UK?

 

[BadFish]

was the EU exit vote by referendum a vote and an instruction to the Government to stop free movement of EU nationals into the UK?

Yes, will they acknowledge this? No

 

[GT49er]

was the EU exit vote by referendum a vote and an instruction to the Government to stop free movement of EU nationals into the UK?

It should have been, but now politicians of all parties (except presumably UKIP) are queuing up to point out that the whole referendum result is just a suggestion, a sort of opinion poll, and not an instruction at all. Trustworthy bunch, aren't they?

 

[GT49er]

JC how does that tally with a compromised withdrawal like the one suggested here?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...de-what-brexit-means-in-the-interests-of-the/

That's not a 'compromised withdrawal'. It's reneging on the Government promise (or threat, the way Cameron put it) - "if you vote leave, that's it, we're out' There won't be any going back". Nice to see the Torygraph trying to dress that up as not being a lie............

 

[gregbrighton]

It was an advisory, non-binding referendum. The government and the UK parliament can choose to recognise it or not. The ultimate decision lies with them.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

It should have been, but now politicians of all parties (except presumably UKIP) are queuing up to point out that the whole referendum result is just a suggestion, a sort of opinion poll, and not an instruction at all. Trustworthy bunch, aren't they?

We are going to get turned over. What we asked for and what we get back will be something completely different. This has happened so many times before with the EU, Ireland, Greece as examples, all because the EU is undemocratic, beaucratic and can never be reformed. Democracy is dead.

 

[BadFish]

We are going to get turned over. What we asked for and what we get back will be something completely different. This has happened so many times before with the EU, Ireland, Greece as examples, all because the EU is undemocratic, beaucratic and can never be reformed. Democracy is dead.

To be fair this time isn't to do with the EU. This time (if you do get turned over) it is because the UK government is undemocratic not the EU.

 

[yxee]

This is where things are going to get messy. I would suggest that some people on the extremes of the continuum are not going to be happy about whatever compromise is reached.

Another referendum with all the options spelled out?

"Sorry, we forgot to make it clear the first time around".

 

[BadFish]

"Sorry, we forgot to make it clear the first time around".

Yes that's the stuff.

"Not sure you really understood what we meant, shall we try again?"

 

[Deleted member 22389]

To be fair this time isn't to do with the EU. This time (if you do get turned over) it is because the UK government is undemocratic not the EU.

You are right on this part, the trouble is when you have politicians who are so pro EU and fail to recognise the problems within the EU, there is never going to be any fundamental change. They don't have to live with the decisions.

It is really quite simple, if I don't get the reforms I want I will just have to vote for UKIP in the next GE.

Can I also add, business has a massive part to play in this. Take for example a supplier, instead of rushing to China why can't the government invest a bit of money in manufacturing companies and look at getting products manufactured here. There are not enough of these types of jobs anymore, which is why people are feeling left out.