[Politics] Brexit

[Guy Fawkes]

Yugoslavia were not part of the EU at the time of the conflict but why let facts get in the way

Already answered this in post #50 - The claim is that the EU brought peace and stability to the whole of Europe, not just member states and Yugoslavia was in Europe so that claim of peace and stability is false.

Besides, why couldn't we have agreements in place, despite not being in the Eu, to protect and come to the aid of our allies should they come under threat from another country (like we had with countries like France before the World Wars) and the difference now is that the threat of nuclear weapons mean that countries are not going to risk sparking a war by invading someone else (would Germany ever invade Nuclear armed France?)

We went to Kuwait's aid when they were invaded by Iraq (despite them not being members of the EU) Surely that couldn't happen by the logic that the EU is the only thing guaranteeing a country's safety and preventing war

The claim that being part of the EU was is the only way to provide this safety to other countries is false

 

[Seagull58]

You really should pack this nonsense in. There is a fair amount of reasoned discussion on this board about the BREXIT but you're not contributing to it here.
In direct answer to your question, if you believe in an afterlife then they will reform sometime in the next 30 years or so. You have little choice whether you will be there or not

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

Not a chance,but hopefully youngsters will able to get a foot on the property ladder and I might be able to see my GP sometime before I retire.

 

[Soulman]

Let's face it this result has come as a shock to many on here, which is why the insults and snarling and bitter posts/threads are appearing.
The endless polls which gleefully showed the IN camp well in front, but just representing the bubble that is Brighton along the South coast.
The project fear has reared its head again barely 24 hours after the UK voted OUT.

 

[ManOfSussex]

So what you are saying is that you wish to emulate Nigal Farage?

If you are saying that Nigel Farage would have asked for something, so it's Ok for you to ask for it too, well that is a little lacking in integrity, isn't it?

Farage may have called for a second referendum if Remain had won. & consider what YOU would have said about that? I wanted us to leave, and I would have accepted a Remain vote, because I took part in the process on the basis that I would respect the result. If I thought the rules were unfair, or if I thought the outcome may have been unsafe in it's validity, I would not have taken part. The one thing I would never do, because it would be frankly a little outrageous, would be to take part in the process, then seek to change it retrospectively because I didn't like the outcome.

I'm just pointing out that plenty of people who backed leave would have done exactly the same. Good for you, that you wouldn't be one of them.

As for Nigel Farage, I wouldn't want to be in the same room as him and his Rupert The Bear outfits, let alone emulate him.

 

[Seagull58]

That was the EEC and comparing Greenland (with a population roughly equivalent to Horsham) and the UK is ludicrous. They didn't contribute or take much from the European project so taking them out of the equation was no real issue

It's a precedent, albeit with major differences. Britain's fishing industry has been profoundly damaged by EU policy and the CAP has cost us billions.

 

[The Birdman]

My brother inlaw who from good old Sussex and Brighton fan but lives in Scotland wonders what going on and he worried about he might have to have duel nationality in the future.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Just remember that there are still many of the population around who were conned in to voting this country into the EU in the first place. It was a vote to enter a common market with no mention of sovereignty or law making.being handed over to this beaurocratic dictatorship.
Just remember there are many still alive who lost relatives in the war. Many of those killed were just teenagers . my great aunt lost both her young sons.,Tthese men and boys. British, Irish, Polish, Indian, Canadians and French resistance thought they were fighting to save sovereignty and democracy and it was appaling that what they died for was for nothing as power was just handed over anyway.
So maybe you should be disgusted and ashamed - with yourselves.

I am sorry to demur but the premise that the first referendum conned us into what was presented as a loose trading union is just one more untruth from the Eurosceptic Propaganda Machine. It wasn't that way at all. I voted in that referendum and remember the conversations around the table about the concept of 'shared sovereignty', my father talking about how we would give up some of our own power but would gain a part of the power of others. I also remember a Telegraph (Telegraph!) piece of a year or so ago which described how discussions about shared sovereignty virtually monopolised the first referendum debate.

The EEC was never just an arm’s length trade arrangement and it was never presented as such. The holy grail of freedom of movement was one of the so-called 'four freedoms' of the organisation and another one, freedom of capital movement, actually envisaged economic and monetary union. And well before that referendum it was often said that you couldn't operate a common market without ‘common rules applied by joint institutions’. There was no secrecy. Hence the Telegraph (Telegraph!) piece I read a year or so ago which described how shared sovereignty virtually monopolised the debate surrounding the first referendum. By the 1970s, there were even moves afoot towards monetary union and tax harmonisation, with a view to promoting industrial integration.

The myth that 'the poor Brits were conned' is just one more of the misrepresentations built up by the Eurosceptic establishment. Last week these liars dropped a leaflet on to my mat promising that... food will become 17 per cent cheaper, the cost of living will fall by £200 per family and wages will rise. Nothing changes - after decades of their lies the people who want to believe them are still believing them.

 

[Prince Monolulu]

As for Nigel Farage, I wouldn't want to be in the same room as him and his Rupert The Bear outfits, let alone emulate him.

Yeah, and I bet he smells too. Na na na na na.

 

[drew]

All i pointed out is that there are still many alive today who lived through the war, saw many young lives cut short and then see everything being given away . All those lives lost for nothing. They were also conned in the common market vote as there was no mention of a political union.

Why is it the more left leaning of our society have to resort to abuse towards anyone who doesn't share. their views.?
I was born 13 years after the war ended but even if i had voted to remain would have respected and understood the reasons why so many of the older generation voted the way they did.
Maybe future generations will thank us .for getting out. I'm not saying i'm right but i 've learnt with age to trust my instincts and i feel that the EU has been a wolf in sheeps clothing and in the not too distant future when virtually all power has been taken from member countries would have shown what it's really about.

I just can't fathom why you think joining the EU meant those that died in the wars were wasted lives. It makes absolutely no sense. We have had an extended period of peace. Our elected politicians have negotiated and signed the various treaties and have done so without a gun to their head.

 

[Triggaaar]

Slight difference between not giving an answer and being an overt bigot.

How are these answers bigoted?

"I went to Calais the other day. There were 50 fishing boats in the harbour. Margate has got one."
"I don't like Cameron. He's a politician. I want Boris. He's an entertainer-politician."

The EU's biased approach to fishing rights is one of the things that made me want to leave the EU.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Don't get your point.
You could say the older voter is the wiser voter as he/she has seen both side of the coin, or perhaps I should say shilling! Clearly they don't like the way we have gone under the EU.

Couldn't disagree with this more. Older generation are more affected by xenophobia so hardly wiser. The older generation has enforced something on the younger generation, which young people did not vote for. As 65+ is the age group that voted most to leave, many of them will be retired and less impacted by this. 18-40 who universally voted to remain will have to face the consequences (and future generations too) of the xenophobia of older generations and history won't look kindly on them.

 

[Biscuit]

We have to address the education system, simple as that. Far too many people who believe simple lies over complicated truths.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I'm just pointing out that only 1 in 3 voted for Brexit, and 2 in 3 didn't.

Have to agree with this. Some of the comments that I've heard from people that voted leave beggars belief. Heard one yesterday where she complained her benefits were going down so that's why she voted leave!!! Nothing at all to do with the elected government of this country! All this rubbish about 'we've got our country back' all that is likely to happen is that power has been dropped in the lap of the likes of Gove or Johnson et al. If the SNP win an independence referendum what hope for any government other than a Tory one?

Just heard Corbyn giving a speech about how Labour aren't going to let the Tories dismantle some of the reforms relating to workers rights, climate control etc. Exactly how does he think he is going to stop them all the time he is sitting on the opposition bench. Might have helped if he had been as passionate during the EU debate rather than after it!

This might give us a distinction between the parties that may get people out to vote for one or the other (a sort of hot topic if you were)

If these rights, etc, are important to the people of the UK and if they are dismantled, (however there is no proof yet that they are under threat, just conjecture) surely it makes a party pledging to restore them should they be be abolished more electable?

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Another referendum would only mean leave would win by an even larger share of the vote. The people have decided and that is the end of it. Some people didn't get their way, and they are angry. They will be angry for some time, but there is nothing they can do about it.

Do you honestly think if remain had won, the likes of Farage and Johnson would have taken it and never suggested another referendum. Farage was already lining up the excuses on the night of the vote when he thought remain had won.

 

[severnside gull]

To answer the original question my understanding of the Associate Member option which could be on the table is the Norwegian model and as their Foreign Minister said last week "you won't like it". It involves paying in for access to trade agreements but with no rebates or grants coming back. No advantages in our situation and more importantly none of the savings promised by the Leave campaign.
The Swiss have been negotiating one-off trade agreements with the EU since it began and are still doing so on an "as needed" basis. There is no universal quick fix. They'll be negotiating fundamental trade agreements long after we are all dead and gone. They are in a position of relative strength of course because of their banking industry while the withdrawal of our EU licence which goes with membership means that much of our financial services strength will be diluted as every financial institution trading in the EU has to have an EU-based headquarters. Morgan and BNP Parinas have already said their main operations will leave London for Paris and they are only the vanguard of an unavoidable migration away from the UK.

 

[dingodan]

I'm just pointing out that plenty of people who backed leave would have done exactly the same. Good for you, that you wouldn't be one of them.

As for Nigel Farage, I wouldn't want to be in the same room as him and his Rupert The Bear outfits, let alone emulate him.

Then don't use the "Well Nigel does it", as an defense for others doing it, or doing it yourself.

 

[Prince Monolulu]

Our country is already in the spotlight over all of this. I feel we might become a bit of a laughing stock should we appear to or even actually contest the result of a democratic vote.

 

[pb21]

How are these answers bigoted?

"I went to Calais the other day. There were 50 fishing boats in the harbour. Margate has got one."
"I don't like Cameron. He's a politician. I want Boris. He's an entertainer-politician."

The EU's biased approach to fishing rights is one of the things that made me want to leave the EU.

How about the guy on the news last night who voted for the UK to leave the EU to stop the Muslim immigrants?

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Just remember that there are still many of the population around who were conned in to voting this country into the EU in the first place. It was a vote to enter a common market with no mention of sovereignty or law making.being handed over to this beaurocratic dictatorship.
Just remember there are many still alive who lost relatives in the war. Many of those killed were just teenagers . my great aunt lost both her young sons.,Tthese men and boys. British, Irish, Polish, Indian, Canadians and French resistance thought they were fighting to save sovereignty and democracy and it was appaling that what they died for was for nothing as power was just handed over anyway.
So maybe you should be disgusted and ashamed - with yourselves.

It's a shame there's not a dislike button because this post is absolute drivel.