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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,099


Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
19,805
Valley of Hangleton
As there are a few leavers out on the board tonight can any of you care to give a quick run down of the benefits of leaving, how as a whole people will be TANGIBLY better off. Quick 5 to 10 points would be good.

Here is a CP from the Bruges Group and there version of the benefits of leaving.

“We often hear much wailing and doom and gloom from those who, for various personal and mostly self indulgent financial reasons, why we should remain in the EU. These people, who many have big fat EU pensions or receive grants and other hand outs from the EU seem to care little for the democratic will of the British people who, by a majority of 1.4 million, voted to leave the EU on the 23rd June 2016. In fact, from members of the CIB, banking and MPs they are actively doing everything to prevent the promise of honouring the vote to leave the EU - I see them as modern day barbarians hammering at the doors of democracy with the intent of destroying Parliament, our constitution and our very freedom to govern ourselves as a free democratic nation.



We often hear that leaving the EU will be a disaster, people will lose their jobs, food will be in short supply and much else. One thing we never hear though, is why? Those who predict disaster do not tell us why, what are they basing their depressing predictions on?


In realty we have to ponder how the UK managed to survive without the EU and become a powerful global trading nation for the best part of a thousand years before we became embroiled in the European community? How did we ever manage to feed ourselves and fight against tyranny in Europe in two world wars, not to forget stopping Napoleon from forming his version of a European Union.


In fact, if looked at in reality, the UK has much to gain from leaving the EU, not just gaining our democratic right to return to being a self governing independent nation again without the burden of EU imposed laws. People wail that we will lose all the money the EU gives us in structural funds and grants. But whose money is it? There are two big net contributors to the EU's coffers, Germany being the largest followed by the UK, any money the EU gives us is nothing more than a little of our own money back with the EU keeping the rest for itself. Just think how much more we could have to invest in the UK, the NHS, education and pensions if we stopped handing £ billions of UK taxpayers money to the EU.


Then there is trade, as a free self governing nation once again we can return to global trade under World Trade Rules (WTO), as the majority of the free world does. In fact once the UK is free to remove EU imposed tariffs on none EU goods many things such as shoes from China and various foods will be reduced in price thus helping the lower paid. Without many EU directives businesses will be freed from time wasting bureaucracy and will prosper, which will create more jobs and opportunities.
Since the 17.4 million majority voted to leave the EU just over three years ago all the predictions of the gloom mongers have been proven wrong, the UK, unlike many of the nations in the EU, has been prospering. While Greece has seen much misery, bankruptcies and people being made homeless, while Italy has been skirting around the fringes of bankruptcy and there has been high numbers of youth unemployment in Spain, the UK economy has been flourishing.


All we need to do now is take that last step to walk away from the declining EU and walk towards great opportunities as a self confident and free nation once again - what is there not to like about leaving the EU which offers nothing but the loss of our nation and being subsumed into a federal European superstate with little democratic accountability?”
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,137
Goldstone
It is surely clear now our mps will simply never going to allow brexit to happen. It is NOT happening. They have blocked every single chance to do so therefore we need to call it as it is. Brexit will never ever happen as the mps will block every single chance.
Unless, as suggested above, another referendum is held and the result is not advisory. Boris's deal (or similar) could be put to the people, with it already set in law that it goes ahead if the people vote for it.

The MPs could vote that option down too, but that would look incredibly weak, so a General Election would happen with the possibility of a stronger government who could push Brexit through without another referendum, so MPs against Brexit would be better taking their chances with another people's vote.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
28,272
It is surely clear now our mps will simply never going to allow brexit to happen. It is NOT happening. They have blocked every single chance to do so therefore we need to call it as it is. Brexit will never ever happen as the mps will block every single chance. What that does to democracy is another thing and the aftermath who knows but I can see a lot of shit in the future

How can they vote for something which gives no tangible benefit ? Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, nearly every option of every deal makes the majority of us worse off if we do it. All we have is a " Something will Turn Up " hope. The governments own estimates ( Have we had enough of experts ? even Pro Leave experts ?) clearly state our economy WILL be worse off for decades after leaving.
 


Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Nothings changed ,the vote to Leave still stands obviously its very frustrating for Democratic folk but as per usual the undemocratic loons still clinging on like shit to a Blanket , reap what you sow ,tick tock tick tock

Regards
DF
 


Wardy's twin

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2014
8,866
Get use to it, the more Parliament defy the people who voted leave the more likely he will garner support, even from people who wouldn’t normally go near him!

I am a remainer, happy for Parliament to stop the disaster.

I will change that opinion when someone can explain to me why it won't be a disaster and why we as a nation will be TANGIBLY better off. All the arguments put forward to leave (and how easy it would be) have proven to be wrong , distorted or incorrect. I appreciate that leavers can say the same about staying but the reality is that it was unlikley to be much different why would it have changed , a buoyant economy until we shot our selves in the foot.
 




Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
19,805
Valley of Hangleton
How can they vote for something which gives no tangible benefit ? Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, nearly every option of every deal makes the majority of us worse off if we do it. All we have is a " Something will Turn Up " hope. The governments own estimates ( Have we had enough of experts ? even Pro Leave experts ?) clearly state our economy WILL be worse off for decades after leaving.

Genuine question, can you explain why the majority will be worse off please?
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,684
The Fatherland
Here is a CP from the Bruges Group and there version of the benefits of leaving.

“We often hear much wailing and doom and gloom from those who, for various personal and mostly self indulgent financial reasons, why we should remain in the EU. These people, who many have big fat EU pensions or receive grants and other hand outs from the EU seem to care little for the democratic will of the British people who, by a majority of 1.4 million, voted to leave the EU on the 23rd June 2016. In fact, from members of the CIB, banking and MPs they are actively doing everything to prevent the promise of honouring the vote to leave the EU - I see them as modern day barbarians hammering at the doors of democracy with the intent of destroying Parliament, our constitution and our very freedom to govern ourselves as a free democratic nation.



We often hear that leaving the EU will be a disaster, people will lose their jobs, food will be in short supply and much else. One thing we never hear though, is why? Those who predict disaster do not tell us why, what are they basing their depressing predictions on?


In realty we have to ponder how the UK managed to survive without the EU and become a powerful global trading nation for the best part of a thousand years before we became embroiled in the European community? How did we ever manage to feed ourselves and fight against tyranny in Europe in two world wars, not to forget stopping Napoleon from forming his version of a European Union.


In fact, if looked at in reality, the UK has much to gain from leaving the EU, not just gaining our democratic right to return to being a self governing independent nation again without the burden of EU imposed laws. People wail that we will lose all the money the EU gives us in structural funds and grants. But whose money is it? There are two big net contributors to the EU's coffers, Germany being the largest followed by the UK, any money the EU gives us is nothing more than a little of our own money back with the EU keeping the rest for itself. Just think how much more we could have to invest in the UK, the NHS, education and pensions if we stopped handing £ billions of UK taxpayers money to the EU.


Then there is trade, as a free self governing nation once again we can return to global trade under World Trade Rules (WTO), as the majority of the free world does. In fact once the UK is free to remove EU imposed tariffs on none EU goods many things such as shoes from China and various foods will be reduced in price thus helping the lower paid. Without many EU directives businesses will be freed from time wasting bureaucracy and will prosper, which will create more jobs and opportunities.
Since the 17.4 million majority voted to leave the EU just over three years ago all the predictions of the gloom mongers have been proven wrong, the UK, unlike many of the nations in the EU, has been prospering. While Greece has seen much misery, bankruptcies and people being made homeless, while Italy has been skirting around the fringes of bankruptcy and there has been high numbers of youth unemployment in Spain, the UK economy has been flourishing.


All we need to do now is take that last step to walk away from the declining EU and walk towards great opportunities as a self confident and free nation once again - what is there not to like about leaving the EU which offers nothing but the loss of our nation and being subsumed into a federal European superstate with little democratic accountability?”

It’s interesting the Bruges group mention Germany as paying more than the U.K. but in the next sentence says leaving will enable U.K. health, education to be properly funded. Germany has a first class properly funded health service and a free fir-for-purpose education system yet they still pay into the EU....and pay the most. The author didn’t really think that one through did he/she? Or maybe they appreciate their target audience isn’t very knowledgeable?
 


Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,093
Lancing
The end result of this is of course as everyone knows now that is there will be a " people's vote " as parliament has abjectly failed for over 3 years to stop their petty inhouse fighting and they will just chuck it out to the public again to remove themselves from any responsibilty and actually delivering on a public vote. Would piss myself laughing though it if was leave again. Then what would they do ?
 




Hampster Gull

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2010
13,465
Welcome to the world of a leave voter on this thread, patronising, condescending, cerebrally challenged, remainiac zealots questioning your intelligence/integrity unable to process the fact people can have a different view for entirely legitimate reasons.

You seem to have a chip on both shoulders. And misconstruing :shrug:
 


Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
19,805
Valley of Hangleton
Unless, as suggested above, another referendum is held and the result is not advisory. Boris's deal (or similar) could be put to the people, with it already set in law that it goes ahead if the people vote for it.

The MPs could vote that option down too, but that would look incredibly weak, so a General Election would happen with the possibility of a stronger government who could push Brexit through without another referendum, so MPs against Brexit would be better taking their chances with another people's vote.

I asked Hugo Rune a few posts earlier but didn’t get a response, I’ll ask you sir, will the said law to make 2nd ref. Legal have to be voted on In Parliament ?
 


Hampster Gull

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2010
13,465
As there are a few leavers out on the board tonight can any of you care to give a quick run down of the benefits of leaving, how as a whole people will be TANGIBLY better off. Quick 5 to 10 points would be good.

Don’t won’t expect any sensible answers soon. I think the last three and a half years have shown what a sham the leave claims were
 




Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
19,805
Valley of Hangleton
It’s interesting the Bruges group mention Germany as paying more than the U.K. but in the next sentence says leaving will enable U.K. health, education to be properly funded. Germany has a first class properly funded health service and a free fir-for-purpose education system yet they still pay into the EU....and pay the most. The author didn’t really think that one through did he/she? Or maybe they appreciate their target audience isn’t very knowledgeable?

Oh look, somewhere out there tonight there’s a tiny rock on its side.....[emoji23]
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,137
Goldstone
I asked Hugo Rune a few posts earlier but didn’t get a response, I’ll ask you sir, will the said law to make 2nd ref. Legal have to be voted on In Parliament ?
Yes (if by legal you mean 'legally binding')
 


seagull_special

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2008
3,007
Abu Dhabi
Is it not time to accept that there is no consensus in parliament and that there needs to be a general election fought on clearly defined positions and MPs ordered to accept that the winner’s position will be adopted which would be BJ’s negotiated deal or a second referendum.

The unity of this country has been destroyed, our reputation is in tatters and the longer this situation festers, the greater the damage. The first referendum was deeply flawed, fake news, propaganda and blatant lies were rife and a second referendum would need to be much clearer. I’m seriously suffering from Brexit fatigue and this situation needs completion and closure so that the country can start the long hard job of healing wounds.
 




Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,362
It is surely clear now our mps will simply never going to allow brexit to happen. It is NOT happening. They have blocked every single chance to do so therefore we need to call it as it is. Brexit will never ever happen as the mps will block every single chance. What that does to democracy is another thing and the aftermath who knows but I can see a lot of shit in the future

" A lot of shit " is an understatement.
We are fast approaching a period of social unrest in this country, not experienced for centuries. The mood out there is ugly and divisive. This atmosphere will worsen and degenerate and manifest itself in civil strife.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
28,272
Here is a CP from the Bruges Group and there version of the benefits of leaving.

“We often hear much wailing and doom and gloom from those who, for various personal and mostly self indulgent financial reasons, why we should remain in the EU. These people, who many have big fat EU pensions or receive grants and other hand outs from the EU seem to care little for the democratic will of the British people who, by a majority of 1.4 million, voted to leave the EU on the 23rd June 2016. In fact, from members of the CIB, banking and MPs they are actively doing everything to prevent the promise of honouring the vote to leave the EU - I see them as modern day barbarians hammering at the doors of democracy with the intent of destroying Parliament, our constitution and our very freedom to govern ourselves as a free democratic nation.



We often hear that leaving the EU will be a disaster, people will lose their jobs, food will be in short supply and much else. One thing we never hear though, is why? Those who predict disaster do not tell us why, what are they basing their depressing predictions on?


In realty we have to ponder how the UK managed to survive without the EU and become a powerful global trading nation for the best part of a thousand years before we became embroiled in the European community? How did we ever manage to feed ourselves and fight against tyranny in Europe in two world wars, not to forget stopping Napoleon from forming his version of a European Union.


In fact, if looked at in reality, the UK has much to gain from leaving the EU, not just gaining our democratic right to return to being a self governing independent nation again without the burden of EU imposed laws. People wail that we will lose all the money the EU gives us in structural funds and grants. But whose money is it? There are two big net contributors to the EU's coffers, Germany being the largest followed by the UK, any money the EU gives us is nothing more than a little of our own money back with the EU keeping the rest for itself. Just think how much more we could have to invest in the UK, the NHS, education and pensions if we stopped handing £ billions of UK taxpayers money to the EU.


Then there is trade, as a free self governing nation once again we can return to global trade under World Trade Rules (WTO), as the majority of the free world does. In fact once the UK is free to remove EU imposed tariffs on none EU goods many things such as shoes from China and various foods will be reduced in price thus helping the lower paid. Without many EU directives businesses will be freed from time wasting bureaucracy and will prosper, which will create more jobs and opportunities.
Since the 17.4 million majority voted to leave the EU just over three years ago all the predictions of the gloom mongers have been proven wrong, the UK, unlike many of the nations in the EU, has been prospering. While Greece has seen much misery, bankruptcies and people being made homeless, while Italy has been skirting around the fringes of bankruptcy and there has been high numbers of youth unemployment in Spain, the UK economy has been flourishing.


All we need to do now is take that last step to walk away from the declining EU and walk towards great opportunities as a self confident and free nation once again - what is there not to like about leaving the EU which offers nothing but the loss of our nation and being subsumed into a federal European superstate with little democratic accountability?”

Sounds marvellous doesn't it ? just two small points I will pick up on, there are many points in this epistle that I could pick up on but, I've had a long week, I'm tired and I have had a few drinks... but 1, " not to forget stopping Napoleon from forming his version of a European Union " Er, we needed the help of the Germans, the Dutch and the Belgian's at Waterloo to stop Napoleon. an early showing of international co-operation in the face of tyranny.

2. "Since the 17.4 million majority voted to leave the EU just over three years ago all the predictions of the gloom mongers have been proven wrong, the UK, unlike many of the nations in the EU, has been prospering." Please, please explain how we have been " Prospering " despite the ongoing cuts to public services, education, welfare and the starvation of funds to the NHS ?
 








Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,106
Faversham
I can see civil unrest very soon as these absolute tools could not arrange a piss up in a brewery. It all smells of a stitch up. Brexit will not happen as the mps will simplly not allow it to happen

We can only hope.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
28,272
Genuine question, can you explain why the majority will be worse off please?

Increase in prices for many food items, reductions in consumers rights, reductions in workers rights and the classic old chestnut " Times are hard, we'll all have to tighten our belts in order to be competetive " ie, those at the bottom of the economy will have to suffer so as those at the top don't.
 


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