[Politics] Brexit

[JC Footy Genius]

I was undecided until the morning of the vote.

My "problem" with the EU, is more of an acceptance that psychologically this country had a different reaction to the aftermath of the Second World War.

The EU wants to integrate Europe so closely economically so our inter-dependency means another war could never happen.

In the UK we are different psychologically because 1) we "won" 2) we weren't invaded and 3) didn't experience the WWII "aftershock" of communism.

That leads to bollocks from our MPs telling us that German car manufacturers will bend over backwards to sell cars to us. Misunderstands the German psyche. They are more interested in making sure WWII doesn't happen again than selling cars.

We've never really understood them and they don't really understand us. I've also considered the EU to be a frankly very white European club that talks about no borders, but it quite happy to build a huge ****ing border around itself.

Mmmmm I thought. Could the UK (being very very canny) could be very successful outside of the UK ? Yes it can....

However, I was also taken a very keen eye on what was happening in the Tory Party. The rise of Neo Liberalism, those wankers in the ERG. If I voted out, who would I be throwing the ball ?

The reality is, Brexit had been hijacked just like UKIP had been hijacked by Farage previously. The party originally was never obsessed with immigration.

So that's why I voted remain because the likes of Rees Mogg, Raab, Truss, Cummings, Farage, Gove, Patel aren't a*******s because of Brexit, they are just a*******s.

They no more represent the true wishes of leavers, than they do who voted for remain. It was just an opportunity for them to take.

Brexiteers really need to swallow this. It isn't about you not knowing what you voted for. It's about those you voted for, not giving a **** what you voted for.

You've been played.

You correctly identify some of the issues with the EU and our problematic relationship with it although I would say the EU project is far more about political integration than economics but your reasoning for not then voting leave is a bit convenient/suspect. This supposed sinister Neo Liberalist ERG cabal couldn't even take control of the Tory party after the referendum result let alone steer the country in a new direction. Instead, we had a government and cabinet packed with remainers leading the negotiations (turned out well..). You will say some of them are finally running the government now but even if we were to believe your rather partial analysis of their motives its the case that they would still be answerable in elections ... if we don't like the direction they are taking the country we vote em out.

Should have had the courage of your convictions.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm not sure they wanted no deal back then, but I don't think a good deal was ever going to be easy. But I don't really mind that, everyone knew that those claims were being made by people who weren't going to be in power, so they were obviously empty promises.

Philip Hammond has confirmed it in today's Times.

[tweet]1177863339902476288[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Farage has been out making sure he's not using any inciteful language

The police are investigating it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...gation-knife-pen-pushers-brexit-a9124286.html

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

#ResignJoSwinson currently trending on Twitter.

What's alarming from the posts is that apparently she voted with the Tory whip more times than Gove, Mogg & IDS.

Can't see them doing well in any election when Labour get their teeth into her voting records.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Nothing Democratic about the liberals, extremist party more like
Regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The police are investigating it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...gation-knife-pen-pushers-brexit-a9124286.html

I can just see you screaming for a policeman
regards
DF

 

[BensGrandad]

After all the shenanigans about recalling parliament what have they achieved since coming back?

 

[pb21]

After all the shenanigans about recalling parliament what have they achieved since coming back?

Johnson's Prorouging of Parliament was unlawful. This was not on the basis that x, y or z subsequently would happen. It was unlawful because it was unlawful.

Regardless, lots happened in Parliament last week and it remains to be seen what this achieved, or contributed to achieving.

Democracy is an ongoing process.

 

[BensGrandad]

Did anything positive come out of Westminster after 11.30am on Wednesday?

 

[beorhthelm]

Johnson's Prorouging of Parliament was unlawful. This was not on the basis that x, y or z subsequently would happen. It was unlawful because it was unlawful.

Regardless, lots happened in Parliament last week and it remains to be seen what this achieved, or contributed to achieving.

Democracy is an ongoing process.

naff all of any note happened. whole episode was a waste of time, for Johnson and the oppositions, they are all shown to be clueless.

 

[Baldseagull]

If we just take the central £350m a week claim that Dominic Cummings said of:

Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. Even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way.

47% of people believed it, 39% didn't, with 14% unsure according to IPSOS/MORI in the run up to the referendum. Polling nearly a year ago by the same organisation showed 42% still believed it, 36% didn't and 22% were unsure.

I appreciate all home owning, leave voters on this thread didn't believe it, but maybe they just need to try and put themselves in the shoes of someone living on Universal Credit after 6 years austerity in a deprived area, who hasn't voted before in anything and you can surely start to understand why Cummings pulled 3 million non-voters out the bag for leave? 70% of housing association/local authority housing tenants voting leave is not insignificant and they didn't do it for no reason. I do wonder if this denial is similar, in that it's formed from a stigma toward benefit claimants, to the same way leave voters dissociate themselves with being linked with those with far more right wing views on immigration and the type/religion of immigrant coming here?

Pretty sure that Cummings also praised Boris for being willing to say whatever he told him to say, whereas some Politicians had concerns.

 

[Baldseagull]

naff all of any note happened. whole episode was a waste of time, for Johnson and the oppositions, they are all shown to be clueless.

Boris succeeded in the main talking point becoming the use of inflammatory language, something all sides can take some stick for, rather than just his unlawful suspension of Parliament.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Royal College of Nursing told to keep their nurses under control.


The RCN has been told by the government to bring its members ‘under control’ because their voice is getting ‘too loud’, the college’s general secretary has claimed.

https://rcni.com/nursing-standard/n...es-under-control-rcn-general-secretary-153326

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Subject for tomorrow.
Is Johnson really stoking it all up with the help of Cummings, to cause civil unrest and enable him to bring in special measures to get a no deal Brexit through.
The humbug uttering really lit the fuse and he refuses to apologise and he will not climb down on the ridiculous surrender and traitor stuff.
As he can't get no deal through without an extension unless he breaks the law again then this is his only option left to him and he did say we will leave on October 31st come what may.
So, he stokes up the public, he brings in the special measures that gets no deal through and the speculators pick up their millions.
I really wouldn't put it past Johnson and Cummings to try and do this as they are getting desperate now.
It's going to be an interesting conference and I hope Johnson is asked this question, just to see if he answers it or totally avoids an answer.

 

[nicko31]

Subject for tomorrow.
Is Johnson really stoking it all up with the help of Cummings, to cause civil unrest and enable him to bring in special measures to get a no deal Brexit through.
The humbug uttering really lit the fuse and he refuses to apologise and he will not climb down on the ridiculous surrender and traitor stuff.
As he can't get no deal through without an extension unless he breaks the law again then this is his only option left to him and he did say we will leave on October 31st come what may.
So, he stokes up the public, he brings in the special measures that gets no deal through and the speculators pick up their millions.
I really wouldn't put it past Johnson and Cummings to try and do this as they are getting desperate now.
It's going to be an interesting conference and I hope Johnson is asked this question, just to see if he answers it or totally avoids an answer.

They will try anything

Never quite whether BJ really wants no deal or not but he's been taken over by Cummins and the shadowy think tanks. Very little sign of any proposals that will work in terms of the deal, no surprises there the earth is still round.

His plan is simple from here, get brought down by opposition, get them to write for an extension, then start the ultimate betrayal game for the upcoming GE.

I'm sure there are plenty of mugs that will buy it.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I was undecided until the morning of the vote.

My "problem" with the EU, is more of an acceptance that psychologically this country had a different reaction to the aftermath of the Second World War.

The EU wants to integrate Europe so closely economically so our inter-dependency means another war could never happen.

In the UK we are different psychologically because 1) we "won" 2) we weren't invaded and 3) didn't experience the WWII "aftershock" of communism.

That leads to bollocks from our MPs telling us that German car manufacturers will bend over backwards to sell cars to us. Misunderstands the German psyche. They are more interested in making sure WWII doesn't happen again than selling cars.

We've never really understood them and they don't really understand us. I've also considered the EU to be a frankly very white European club that talks about no borders, but it quite happy to build a huge ****ing border around itself.

Mmmmm I thought. Could the UK (being very very canny) could be very successful outside of the UK ? Yes it can....

However, I was also taken a very keen eye on what was happening in the Tory Party. The rise of Neo Liberalism, those wankers in the ERG. If I voted out, who would I be throwing the ball ?

The reality is, Brexit had been hijacked just like UKIP had been hijacked by Farage previously. The party originally was never obsessed with immigration.

So that's why I voted remain because the likes of Rees Mogg, Raab, Truss, Cummings, Farage, Gove, Patel aren't a*******s because of Brexit, they are just a*******s.

They no more represent the true wishes of leavers, than they do who voted for remain. It was just an opportunity for them to take.

Brexiteers really need to swallow this. It isn't about you not knowing what you voted for. It's about those you voted for, not giving a **** what you voted for.

You've been played.

I'd suggest an educated one, that a child may disagree with.

They voted for what people said and those people are now in power.

Raab. Truss, Johnson. Gove, In fact anyone who believed otherwise is a "traitor".

They have been played, which is why (understandably) Farage is frothing at the mouth.

Brexit was sold as a combination of a return to Sovereignty and a halt to uncontrolled immigration.

The reality is that OUR current system is bonkers and made up on the hoof (have you been awake for the last few months ?) and the current Government rather than close the borders have chucked away the quotas.

I'm really sorry. The two major tent poles of Brexit have either been proven to be bollocks or blown away.

I've never really been of the opinion that Brexiteers didn't know what they voted for, they did.

Just more of the opinion that the Neo Liberal branch of the Tory party had a very different vision. If you appropriate someone else's to get where you want to go, it's no surprise it all ****s ups.

Come on, they've employed a pro immigration, pro freedom of movement chancer wrong-un to carry it out. Backed up by a disaster advisor who fell out with Farage because he always wanted a referendum post deal.

Quite a couple of arrogant statements to make. Firstly I going to be pedantic - WWII can't happen again, it would be WWIII. And I'm not convinced that any one has voted for the UK to be outside the UK ! Sorry, couldn't help myself ..... I usually would leave it to [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION].

So, you're making the HUGE assumption that the people you mention actually influenced my vote. They didn't - I've been anti-EU long before any of these people were on the scene or indeed the phrase 'Brexit' was coined. Despite what some remainers claim and think - many leavers are of independent thought. I'll agree there are some stupid leavers but equally there are some stupid remainers ( probably those that when joining the Euro was being muted thought it was a good idea because "I won't have to change my money when I go on holiday" ). Equally, I've not aligned myself with the individuals you list - I just happen to agree with them on one single subject - it doesn't stop me believing they are *****. So no, I've not been played, and I'd be grateful if you could cease you idiotic generalisations.

 

[Seaber]

naff all of any note happened. whole episode was a waste of time, for Johnson and the oppositions, they are all shown to be clueless.

Because Parliament is back, it means the domestic abuse bill will get its second reading next week and become law.

It's a wonderful piece of legislation that has been two years in the making. The prorogation (that was) meant this important bill was gone. Now that prorogation is null, its back.

The Government could have brought it back in the next parliamentary term, but there was no guarantee of that. Either way, it will be law at least a month earlier than if prorogation had continued.

On this point at least, nothing naff or clueless about Parliament being back.

 

[Stat Brother]

So, you're making the HUGE assumption that the people you mention actually influenced my vote. They didn't - I've been anti-EU long before any of these people were on the scene or indeed the phrase 'Brexit' was coined. Despite what some remainers claim and think - many leavers are of independent thought. I'll agree there are some stupid leavers but equally there are some stupid remainers ( probably those that when joining the Euro was being muted thought it was a good idea because "I won't have to change my money when I go on holiday" ). Equally, I've not aligned myself with the individuals you list - I just happen to agree with them on one single subject - it doesn't stop me believing they are *****. So no, I've not been played, and I'd be grateful if you could cease you idiotic generalisations.

How do you feel about potentially getting what you want -out of the EU

But

Potentially the wrong way?
Walking out with nothing, for all the wrong reasons.
Lining the pockets of the uber wealthy, undermining our own sovereignty, and in what appears to be a generally ram shackled unorganized manner.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

How do you feel about potentially getting what you want -out of the EU

But

Potentially the wrong way?
Walking out with nothing, for all the wrong reasons.
Lining the pockets of the uber wealthy, undermining our own sovereignty, and in what appears to be a generally ram shackled unorganized manner.

To be honest it's so fvcked up now it's difficult to know what to think ! I'm more and more heading towards the no deal side just to get it done .... government and MPs ( of all parties ) have been utter failures .... and these are the people we have running the country ?? As for the uber wealthy, couldn't give a toss about them .... if they make a few billion it doesn't change what I'm earning or doing in my life - I'm all for 'leveling the playing field' but lets move in to reality .... it is NEVER going to happen Brexit or no Brexit.

 

[Stat Brother]

To be honest it's so fvcked up now it's difficult to know what to think ! I'm more and more heading towards the no deal side just to get it done .... government and MPs ( of all parties ) have been utter failures .... and these are the people we have running the country ?? As for the uber wealthy, couldn't give a toss about them .... if they make a few billion it doesn't change what I'm earning or doing in my life - I'm all for 'leveling the playing field' but lets move in to reality .... it is NEVER going to happen Brexit or no Brexit.

Again a lot there to agree with.

My uber wealthy comment was more to do with only getting out of the EU because already wealthy people have massively speculated on the UK failing, in order to increase their wealth, which in turn will seriously effect all of us through inflation and the value of the pound.

Usually their bubble doesn't interact with 'our' bubble quite so overtly.

 

[Stat Brother]

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