[Politics] Brexit

[The Clamp]

Boris will be happy. The challenge to suspend govt has failed.
So he may get his time off after all. Pity that in doing so he’s spat in the face of democracy and utterly destroyed a party that has stood for centuries.

 

[dingodan]

Good grief. Really? This really, really isn't hard.

1. dingodan goes on (and on and on and on and on) about how an Member of Parliament MUST act in line with the wishes of his constituents.
2. Thirty people explain that it doesn't work like that - that they have to make judgement calls of their own.
3. dan repeats himself fourteen more times (NOT moaning though - only stating facts) that they MUST follow their constituents wishes.
4. It is pointed out to him that MPs represent not just those that voted for them, but those that voted against them, and indeed those that never voted at all. MPs represent all of them, and need to act in the best interests of the whole.
5. Herr T asks dan, how, according to his narrow view, an MP can represent two constituents with opposite wishes.
6. Mellotron then uses the (deliberately ridiculous) EXAMPLE of fox hunting, to illustrate to dan, that his MP is not 'representing him' (and so its really, really unfair, and undemocratic, and worth a good CRY).

Any help?

I said it before, all MP's took the decision to hold a referendum on Brexit. To ask the public as a whole to decide.

They also said, even after the result, that it should be and would be respected.

To be fair, some people on the remain side do care about the principles involved here, and have said that their MP, and all MPs, should carry out Brexit, even though they didn't vote for it, even in constituencies where the majority voted remain. Because the principle at stake here is important, that this was the instruction of the majority who voted in the referendum, and everyone taking part understood and agreed to how it was going to work.

It's only over time that people have gradually encouraged each other, from MPs down, that it's Ok to go back on the result because they didn't like the outcome. Now the principle that if we have all agreed to take part in a vote, and if in the end we personally lost, we will accept the result, that principle is gone. You might think half the population are defending Brexit and the other half are defending remain. Actually half the population are defending something much more fundamental to a civil society than that, and the other half are Ok with destroying it.

I can only imagine that their narrow short term political views have got in the way of their senses, but whatever, it's too late to go back now. The damage is done.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

It's why it would be so much more sensible to have the second referendum before any GE.

Then people can decide whether to have a turd sandwich giving all of our money to one armed, lesbian, Syrian single mothers who support the IRA or a giant douche giving money to his rich mates and depriving people of medicine, running the country after Brexit has been sorted.

Unfortunately, common sense went west and hasn't been seen again, ever since the moment the pig f****r said 'I've got a great idea to cover up the cracks in my party'

Of course it would. But will never happen. Not only would it be likely to remove the decision that the people driving it want but as a lot of the Brexiteers say, it would ruin trust in democracy. You, I and a large swathe of people see that the reality of what leaving will mean is nothing like what a lot of people voted for. But people voted in a rare chance to have the will of the majority actually enacted. Some people may well have known exactly what they were voting for but I doubt they were many. The problem is the large body of people that want us to leave without a deal because they chose to leave. They either don't believe the warnings of what is likely to happen or don't care. Some of the vox pops have been staggering. The sheep farmer who seemed to know it would kill his business but wanted to leave anyway. The woman who thought it would do the country good to go short of things. However sensible a second referendum would be, you split the country for a long, long time by doing it.

Whichever way we go, we are Probably the best outcome is leaving with a deal of some sort that doesn't cripple us and just taking our medicine. But that seems the least likely option at present. The only crumb of comfort I can take is watching the massive arse Bercow upsetting the other massive arses. And being thankful that I pick up my next batch of blood pressure medication on 29th October so I might have 2 months grace.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Boris will be happy. The challenge to suspend govt has failed.
So he may get his time off after all. Pity that in doing so he’s spat in the face of democracy and utterly destroyed a party that has stood for centuries.

I am glad it hasn't, he will have to wait longer for the election.

The shutting down of parliament is looking to be another decision that has back fired, it has aslo led to the release of documents from the Government showing them to be lying.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Silly tweet of the day. Err we are still in the EU, and there is zero tariffs on beer.

This just shows Wetherspoons have been overcharging all the time, or else he's cutting back on his poor downtrodden staff wages again.

[tweet]1169887796439343104[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I said it before, all MP's took the decision to hold a referendum on Brexit. To ask the public as a whole to decide.

They also said, even after the result, that it should be and would be respected.

To be fair, some people on the remain side do care about the principles involved here, and have said that their MP, and all MPs, should carry out Brexit, even though they didn't vote for it, even in constituencies where the majority voted remain. Because the principle at stake here is important, that this was the instruction of the majority who voted in the referendum, and everyone taking part understood and agreed to how it was going to work.

It's only over time that people have gradually encouraged each other, from MPs down, that it's Ok to go back on the result because they didn't like the outcome. Now the principle that if we have all agreed to take part in a vote, and if in the end we personally lost, we will accept the result, that principle is gone. You might think half the population are defending Brexit and the other half are defending remain. Actually half the population are defending something much more fundemenatal to a civil society than that, and the other half are Ok with destroying it.

I can only imagine that their narrow short term political views have got in the way of their senses, but whatever, it's too late to go back now. The damage is done.

Parliament is sovereign not an advisory referendum, proved to be corrupt.

 

[The Clamp]

I am glad it hasn't, he will have to wait longer for the election.

The shutting down of parliament is looking to be another decision that has back fired, it has aslo led to the release of documents from the Government showing them to be lying.

Ah okay, lovely.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I said it before, all MP's took the decision to hold a referendum on Brexit. To ask the public as a whole to decide.

They also said, even after the result, that it should be and would be respected.

To be fair, some people on the remain side do care about the principles involved here, and have said that their MP, and all MPs, should carry out Brexit, even though they didn't vote for it, even in constituencies where the majority voted remain. Because the principle at stake here is important, that this was the instruction of the majority who voted in the referendum, and everyone taking part understood and agreed to how it was going to work.

It's only over time that people have gradually encouraged each other, from MPs down, that it's Ok to go back on the result because they didn't like the outcome. Now the principle that if we have all agreed to take part in a vote, and if in the end we personally lost, we will accept the result, that principle is gone. You might think half the population are defending Brexit and the other half are defending remain. Actually half the population are defending something much more fundamental to a civil society than that, and the other half are Ok with destroying it.

I can only imagine that their narrow short term political views have got in the way of their senses, but whatever, it's too late to go back now. The damage is done.

A lot of remainers on here would back Leave with a soft Brexit at this stage, including me (though I think it would be STUPID). The argument that No Deal is the only acceptable form of Leave is a new one and that is what most are fighting against, imo.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Silly tweet of the day. Err we are still in the EU, and there is zero tariffs on beer.

This just shows Wetherspoons have been overcharging all the time, or else he's cutting back on his poor downtrodden staff wages again.

[tweet]1169887796439343104[/tweet]

They could give beer away for free and I'd still boycott that disgrace's company.

 

[pb21]

I said it before, all MP's took the decision to hold a referendum on Brexit. To ask the public as a whole to decide.

They also said, even after the result, that it should be and would be respected.

To be fair, some people on the remain side do care about the principles involved here, and have said that their MP, and all MPs, should carry out Brexit, even though they didn't vote for it, even in constituencies where the majority voted remain. Because the principle at stake here is important, that this was the instruction of the majority who voted in the referendum, and everyone taking part understood and agreed to how it was going to work.

It's only over time that people have gradually encouraged each other, from MPs down, that it's Ok to go back on the result because they didn't like the outcome. Now the principle that if we have all agreed to take part in a vote, and if in the end we personally lost, we will accept the result, that principle is gone. You might think half the population are defending Brexit and the other half are defending remain. Actually half the population are defending something much more fundamental to a civil society than that, and the other half are Ok with destroying it.

I can only imagine that their narrow short term political views have got in the way of their senses, but whatever, it's too late to go back now. The damage is done.

You are being hysterical, and I suspect deliberately so.

 

[The Clamp]

Let’s not get too caught up in No Deal fever. Blocking No Deal is of course essential but so is reversing Brexit. It’s still a shit idea.

 

[Hampster Gull]

That is the ultimate irony. The Ernests of this world have their Wolfie Smith they have always dreamed of which condemns us to this chaos for a long time.All Boris has to do is keep on about a Surrender Bill or just keep mentioning Corbyn and they will probably get back in as enough people will buy it. Which is why he keeps on about a General Election as asking the people what they want to do about Brexit. Them getting back in will be claimed as a mandate to do what the hell they like whereas is is just a vote of no confidence in Labour. For me and plenty of others, the next election will be like the South Park episode where you have to choose between a giant douche or a turd sandwich. And when the giant douche wins, he will proclaim it as a mandate for douches everywhere. Whereas it will likely be that people were a bit more scared of the turd sandwich giving all of our money to one armed, lesbian, Syrian single mothers who support the IRA than a giant douche giving money to his rich mates and depriving people of medicine because it is what we voted for.

Nail. Head

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Silly tweet of the day. Err we are still in the EU, and there are zero tariffs on beer.

This just shows Wetherspoons have been overcharging all the time, or else he's cutting back on his poor downtrodden staff wages again.

[tweet]1169887796439343104[/tweet]

Makes me laugh how many leftie remainers will slag off Wetherspoons because off Tim Martins Brexit stance, but then most of NSC will be necking their beer and gobbling their burgers.
Your hypocrites at all you do.
Democrats my arse, the people decided and you will still support those visionless weak mp's up the road.
Unbelievable how you lot have supported these useless MPs, that have dragged their heels on following through what the people voted for, the cost and uncertainty to business is unmeasurable.
Shame on you.

 

[Bakero]

Makes me laugh how many leftie remainers will slag off Wetherspoons because off Tim Martins Brexit stance, but then most of NSC will be necking their beer and gobbling their burgers.
Your hypocrites at all you do.
Democrats my arse, the people decided and you will still support those visionless weak mp's up the road.
Unbelievable how you lot have supported these useless MPs, that have dragged their heels on following through what the people voted for, the cost and uncertainty to business is unmeasurable.
Shame on you.

Shame on your English teacher.

 

[dingodan]

Here's what we've done.

We've taught young people, many for whom this whole debacle was their first view of how politics works, that it's Ok to reject a democratic result. Using arguments like "people didn't know what they were voting for", "the vote was based on lies, it was illegal" etc.

Fast forward a generation or two.

People will feel it's legitimate to refuse to accept the result of a general election in the same way. Maybe your guy or girl will win the election, and opponents, maybe even the actual opposing candidate and their party, will refuse to accept the result.

You will cry foul, you will hold up the principles of democracy and losers consent. Few will remember what that actually looks like, and those who do will point to this time, call you a hypocrite, tell you that you didn't know what you were voting for in the election, and carry on righteously declaring that despite the actual vote count, you didn't win, or if you did it doesn't matter.

Well done you.

Those who have done this have destroyed what so many fought and died for. We've lost it, not after some invasion, or some international conflict against fascists, but self inflicted. From within, to ourselves.

If you ever get a moment away from your self righteousness and hubris, and can for a moment seperate your politics from your principles and think clearly, just for a moment, I invite you to have a think about that.

 

[The Clamp]

Makes me laugh how many leftie remainers will slag off Wetherspoons because off Tim Martins Brexit stance, but then most of NSC will be necking their beer and gobbling their burgers.
Your hypocrites at all you do.
Democrats my arse, the people decided and you will still support those visionless weak mp's up the road.
Unbelievable how you lot have supported these useless MPs, that have dragged their heels on following through what the people voted for, the cost and uncertainty to business is unmeasurable.
Shame on you.

Drink in a Wetherspoons? No dear.
I like your spoof account though. Makes me chuckle. Brexit is unimplementable. If you haven’t got that message by now you are thicker than most Leavers on here. And there is some stiff competition!

 

[CHAPPERS]

Makes me laugh how many leftie remainers will slag off Wetherspoons because off Tim Martins Brexit stance, but then most of NSC will be necking their beer and gobbling their burgers.
Your hypocrites at all you do.
Democrats my arse, the people decided and you will still support those visionless weak mp's up the road.
Unbelievable how you lot have supported these useless MPs, that have dragged their heels on following through what the people voted for, the cost and uncertainty to business is unmeasurable.
Shame on you.

It's okay though, Boris has alternatives to the backstop so should comeback with a palatable deal for Parliament on October 19th. Save you ire you him, if he does not.

 

[The Clamp]

Here's what we've done.

We've taught young people, many for whom this whole debacle was their first view of how politics works, that it's Ok to reject a democratic result. Using arguments like "people didn't know what they were voting for", "the vote was based on lies, it was illegal" etc.

Fast forward a generation or two.

People will feel it's legitimate to refuse to accept the result of a general election in the same way. Maybe your guy or girl will win the election, and opponents, maybe even the actual opposing candidate and their party, will refuse to accept the result.

You will cry foul, you will hold up the principles of democracy and losers consent. Few will remember what that actually looks like, and those who do will point to this time, call you a hypocrite, tell you that you didn't know what you were voting for in the election, and carry on righteously declaring that despite the actual vote count, you didn't win, or if you did it doesn't matter.

Well done you.

Those who have done this have destroyed what so many fought and died for. We've lost it, not after some invasion, or some international conflict against fascists, but self inflicted. From within, to ourselves.

If you ever get a moment away from your self righteousness and hubris, and can for a moment seperate your politics from your principles and think clearly, just for a moment, I invite you to have a think about that.

Oh! The drama! Get a bloody grip, man.

 

[dingodan]

Oh! The drama! Get a bloody grip, man.

Like I said, when you have a moment.

 

[Silverhatch]

We've been in the EU for 46 years. Nearly five decades of interwoven agreements across every facet of society (trade, politics, culture, law...). When the public and/or politicians/or Prime Ministers say "We just want this over with" or "We have to get on with it" the irony is that October 31st (if it ever happens) is just the start of 10 years of unpicking and rebuilding said agreements. Brexit only really starts on or after 31st October (if that date is adhered to). In 1973 there were only 6 members of the EC to negotiate with (and that was difficult enough). There are now 27. Irrespective of your position on the referendum - Brexit will continue to dominate these islands for another decade. The end of the beginning or the beginning of the end?