[Politics] Brexit

[Diablo]

I'm not quite sure why you think that EU businesses will still want to sell to the UK, but UK businesses will no longer want to sell to the EU. If a company does the bulk of its business with Europe, it will want to keep it.

Agree . just pointing out how bad it will be for Europe to tarrif our exports to them if we reciprocate.

 

[Stat Brother]

I'm no expert, but am I right in thinking this all going very well?

That depends:-

Do you have a bank account in the Cayman Islands?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

rather depends on the agreements negotiated after WA. they are not in the single market, they joined Schengen about 10 years when they voted to. the swiss like to vote on many issue, and last time of asking rejected joining the EU.

This is the problem with Brexit. Lots of people say just get on with it, but the Withdrawal Agreement is just the start. Trade agreements take years to negotiate.

 

[pastafarian]

But that was never the only way out of this mess. Why not leave the EU but stay in a customs union and pay for free access to the common market? Solves the Irish border question, keeps businesses who have spent 40 years building trade in our nearest export market afloat.

The deal that was on the table quite clearly left us in a worse position than we are now, in every conceivable way, which is why everyone except May's government voted against it.

do you mean be in the customs union and the be members of the single market (when you say common market) ie accept the primacy of the ECJ who regulate the single market, have to accept all regulations and directives from the EU pertaining to the single market even those that are directly applicable that parliament cannot stop and also have to continue with freedom of movement by being in the single market and cannot be free of the customs union and pursue your own international trade policy but have to accept the will of the EU trade wants whilst you have no vote in the commission which regulates trade, because you are out of the EU......is that your solution?

 

[GT49er]

- Accept May's deal.

- Amend the future relationship outline to commit to re-joining EFTA ( which we left to join the common market in the first place ). Decide on level of EEA access and trade offs later.

- Throw the DUP under the bus and have a Customs Boundary in the Irish Sea.

- Move on, live happily ever after and consign this whole sorry saga to the history books.

Anybody not in favour of that?

 

[Lever]

What if you just don't want to leave?

I have no faith in any politician.
I have no faith in UK democracy.
I have no faith in a referendum that was just to shut Farridge up.
I have no faith in a tampered result.

TBH I'd rather cling onto a desperate attempt to stay in Europe at the expense of our ruling class.
Than jettison Europe and remain enthralled to a tiny minority of the UK who's intentions I believe to be self serving.


You don't see it that way and that's fine.

Apart from putting all politicians in the same category of 'faithless', I agree with this!

 

[Diablo]

This thread is becoming as exciting as watching every news Channel every hour of every day for the last god knows how long !!

A lot of bollocks, and scare mongering from both sides. Will it stop on November the first ?? (very unlikely). Will we be out ?? (I hope so).

 

[Simster]

do you mean be in the customs union and the be members of the single market (when you say common market) ie accept the primacy of the ECJ who regulate the single market, have to accept all regulations and directives from the EU pertaining to the single market even those that are directly applicable that parliament cannot stop and also have to continue with freedom of movement by being in the single market and cannot be free of the customs union and pursue your own international trade policy but have to accept the will of the EU trade wants whilst you have no vote in the commission which regulates trade, because you are out of the EU......is that your solution?

You mean am I asking whether you should consider that a solution might be to have a similar relationship to the EU as Norway, Iceland and Switzerland, none of whom are in the EU, and all of whom are dependent on their near neighbours for trade, none of whom incidentally also have to contend with an internationally binding border treaty to boot?

Yes, yes I am.

It was 51.9 v 48.1. If you want something more extreme, you better be prepared to go back to the people and ask them now that they are all better informed of what is at stake. You won't do that though, because it doesn't suit your beliefs. A huge majority in this country believes that a no deal Brexit will have disastrous consequences for the nation and that is a fact.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Sam Coates' twitter feed is interesting today

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky

 

[Thunder Bolt]

do you mean be in the customs union and the be members of the single market (when you say common market) ie accept the primacy of the ECJ who regulate the single market, have to accept all regulations and directives from the EU pertaining to the single market even those that are directly applicable that parliament cannot stop and also have to continue with freedom of movement by being in the single market and cannot be free of the customs union and pursue your own international trade policy but have to accept the will of the EU trade wants whilst you have no vote in the commission which regulates trade, because you are out of the EU......is that your solution?

Our representative in the Commission is there as a choice of our Prime Minister.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

do you mean be in the customs union and the be members of the single market (when you say common market) ie accept the primacy of the ECJ who regulate the single market, have to accept all regulations and directives from the EU pertaining to the single market even those that are directly applicable that parliament cannot stop and also have to continue with freedom of movement by being in the single market and cannot be free of the customs union and pursue your own international trade policy but have to accept the will of the EU trade wants whilst you have no vote in the commission which regulates trade, because you are out of the EU......is that your solution?

That bit isn't really true, is it ?

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1073867169723756544?s=19

 

[Gwylan]

This is the problem with Brexit. Lots of people say just get on with it, but the Withdrawal Agreement is just the start. Trade agreements take years to negotiate.

There's a good piece in the Spectator setting out the difficulties that lie ahead
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/ivan-rogers-the-realities-of-a-no-deal-brexit/

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I wanted to check my facts before I posted this answer. There will be no more bail outs by the UK, because David Cameron got an agreement in 2011 with the EU.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12181194

Btw, the UK did loan money to Portugal before that, which was paid back in full to us. Portugal is our oldest ally, and has been so for centuries.

He's not talking about bailouts nor anything to do with the Euro. He's stating, correctly, that the EU shifts money from the more wealthy member nations - the UK, Germany, France - to the poorer member nations such as Greece and Spain.

 

[beorhthelm]

10 days or so ago Johnson said he was confident of alternative arrangements being found within 30 days, which would make the backstop redundant.

Why not sign up to the WA agreement as is today then, the backstop issue will have been sorted within the first 20 days of leaving the EU, we wouldn’t need all 700+ days.

Of course that’s if you believe anything coming out of Johnson’s mouth.

Alternative arrangements will not be found within 20 days or 700. Johnson’s puppeteers don’t want to leave with a deal, there will be no deal.

there is nothing that can be "done" in 30 days that can make the backstop redundant. this is a red herring. the issue is clause that we cannot leave the backstop state unless and until the EU agree to any arrangments. we could have in 2 years the legal, technical, political frameworks in place and if the EU say, sorry we dont like it, the UK stays in the WA state in perpetuity. that may not happen, but the risk is there and a group suspicious of the EU dont want to take that risk. this issue was highjacked so one should understand some suspicion, there was a time when the Irish were happy with the arrangments put forward, people started claiming victories, politics kicked in and others changed their minds.

 

[A1X]

[TWEET]1168832946914156545[/TWEET]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There's a good piece in the Spectator setting out the difficulties that lie ahead
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/ivan-rogers-the-realities-of-a-no-deal-brexit/

Yes, I read that yesterday. It's well balanced and realistic. I recommend both leavers and remainers read it.

 

[beorhthelm]

That bit isn't really true, is it ?

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1073867169723756544?s=19

it pretty much is, thats the point of the single market. the twitter you link to discussed the input EFTA members have on EU legislation, not what happens once a law, directive is passed. for alignment, they must be passed in national leglistation, if not adopted automatically through existing secondary instruments. (not against this, just making the point this is what being in single market entails)

 

[CHAPPERS]

[TWEET]1168832946914156545[/TWEET]

Anyone that disagrees with Johnson and Cummings' plan to lose this game of chicken and crash out is a remainer, according to them.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Dr Nicholl is the doctor who contributed to Yellow Hammer. The government is stockpiling bodybags.

[tweet]1168823458647511040[/tweet]

 

[Simster]

there is nothing that can be "done" in 30 days that can make the backstop redundant. this is a red herring. the issue is clause that we cannot leave the backstop state unless and until the EU agree to any arrangments. we could have in 2 years the legal, technical, political frameworks in place and if the EU say, sorry we dont like it, the UK stays in the WA state in perpetuity. that may not happen, but the risk is there and a group suspicious of the EU dont want to take that risk. this issue was highjacked so one should understand some suspicion, there was a time when the Irish were happy with the arrangments put forward, people started claiming victories, politics kicked in and others changed their minds.

It isn't a red herring at all. That amounts to the same thing as a backstop being in place until both sides agree it is no longer needed. It is entirely necessary. It is quite obvious the EU was not going to stand by and allow the UK to damage the integrity of their single market. Regardless, Northern Ireland voted to stay in anyway.

Where you get this nonsense about the issue being highjacked is beyond me. More accurately, it wasn't considered at all on the mainland during the referendum debate. Only it really is a major problem.