[Politics] Brexit

[Diablo]

Do you see any pitfalls or downsides to leaving with no deal?

Of course there are Brexiteers are not blinkered ........... Do you see any upsides from leaving with or without a deal ??

 

[Yoda]

Unfortunately we have a bunch of tosser MPs who refuse to accept both the deal and no deal, they simply want Brexit stopped. The damage to our democracy that will be done by ignoring the decision to leave far outweighs anything else.
If you don’t want to leave with no deal then shout at the top of your voice take the deal……….i have **** all sympathy for those that refuse to accept either.

Well, Labour were always going to vote against May's deal as the opposition, as were the SNP & Libs who want to remain. The ones that really derailed her deal were the rich Tory boys (Rees-Mog, Hunt, Gove etc) with off-shore savings who will lose out by us staying ties in to part to the EU and the new offshore tax directives coming into force in 2020.

It's no surprise that the majority in Government wanting no deal bulldozed through are the ones who will lose out the most if it's not, whereas at least the rest have the Countries Health & Wealth in mind.

As what was posted yesterday from Churhill's quote: Country first, Constituents second, Party third. Unfortunately we seem to have some MP's that put Themselves first, Party second, Constituents & Country last.

 

[pb21]

There is no deal on the table. The PM is now saying we can't have the backstop in any deal yet has no answer to what will replace it. The PM has no deal to present and no negotiating team, even though he is saying talks are progressing. He's a liar and a hypocrite who is going to deslect at the next election for doing exactly what half his cabinet were doing earlier this year.

10 days or so ago Johnson said he was confident of alternative arrangements being found within 30 days, which would make the backstop redundant.

Why not sign up to the WA agreement as is today then, the backstop issue will have been sorted within the first 20 days of leaving the EU, we wouldn’t need all 700+ days.

Of course that’s if you believe anything coming out of Johnson’s mouth.

Alternative arrangements will not be found within 20 days or 700. Johnson’s puppeteers don’t want to leave with a deal, there will be no deal.

 

[pastafarian]

What if you just don't want to leave?

.

I suggest you pretend there was never a referendum and put your fingers in your ears

 

[Thunder Bolt]

My opinion which you obviously won`t agree with. .
Out, we will not be subsidising the likes of Greece Spain Italy . Our businesses that are weighed down by European bureaucracy will flourish in the free world. Europeans will still want to sell to us and any tariffs will be replicated by us and both sides will soon realise (I imagine they do now) they do no one any good. Tell me what will the Spanish do with all their Salad and Fruit. Where will the Danish sell their Bacon. Where will the French sell the millions of bottles of wine we take from them. It`s not just BMW`s and Mercedes that will feel hurt in any trade war.

Greece Spain and Italy are in the euro, we aren't.

With a no deal, our tariffs will be zero under WTO rules. Other countries can put whatever tariffs they want onto goods they sell us, so prices will rise.

You seem to have veered away from saying we could be like Switzerland. That is because we won't be.

 

[Diablo]

It's the 'I'm happy just so long as everyone else is also suffering' argument.

where did that come from ? you`ve lost me !!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What if you just don't want to leave?

I have no faith in any politician.
I have no faith in UK democracy.
I have no faith in a referendum that was just to shut Farridge up.
I have no faith in a tampered result.

TBH I'd rather cling onto a desperate attempt to stay in Europe at the expense of our ruling class.
Than jettison Europe and remain enthralled to a tiny minority of the UK who's intentions I believe to be self serving.


You don't see it that way and that's fine.

I have no faith in the unelected bureaucrat Dominic Cummings who is pulling the strings in number 10.

It's almost farcical. Those who voted for Brexit said it was because of unelected bureaucrats, but then cannot use that excuse now we've had further EU elections, but are very happy to allow an unelected bureaucrat dictate what is happening in Westminster.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Dont give up so easily, lobby your MP to force the PM to present the current deal on the table again
If it came up for vote again and the EU have refused to accept an extension would you say aye accept the deal or would you be in the noes and be a no deal enabler?

I don't know the answer to that hypothetical situation that isn't going to present itself.

Here's one for you. What would you do if Boris actually hasn't got a plan to remove the backstop and has been bluffing all along?

 

[Yoda]

There is no deal on the table. The PM is now saying we can't have the backstop in any deal yet has no answer to what will replace it. The PM has no deal to present and no negotiating team, even though he is saying talks are progressing. He's a liar and a hypocrite who is going to deslect at the next election for doing exactly what half his cabinet were doing earlier this year.

Yep, he has 17 days left. Angela Merkel gave BJ 30 days to come up with this amazing alternative. What made me laugh was the lies coming out from his lapdogs. One on BBC Breakfast this morning couldn't be more blatant saying they have and are going to be discussing this over the next 4 weeks. Times up with giving this proposal to the EU by then.

 

[Simster]

I suggest you pretend there was never a referendum and put your fingers in your ears

If Brexit doesn't happen, I wonder who you'll blame?

I ask because you have told us you're a committed socialist, yet Jeremy Corbyn is now committed to ensuring no deal doesn't happen. Will it be his fault or are you going to continue blaming centralist remainer MPs because they consistently vote down propositions that this absolutely dreadful, incompetent, lying, hypocritical, self serving bunch of Tory politicians that represent the worst government(s) arguably in centuries?

Leave won. This was all so avoidable if the Tories had managed this even half-way competently.

 

[Stat Brother]

Of course there are Brexiteers are not blinkered ........... Do you see any upsides from leaving with or without a deal ??

I'd imagine I probably did.

But the longer this process has dragged on, the more information that has been made available (none of which appeared before the referendum) the moral fibre shown by those leading the charge to leave, makes me think there are no upsides for me to leave the EU.
.
The cost to British business, the projected cost to British business, say no.

Yesterday JRM casually mentions plans to air lift in pharmaceuticals.
Didn't say where from, at what cost, or why it would be necessary.

Just casually mentioned 'it's ok we have plans for airlifts'.

I'm sorry but if that doesn't strike fear deep deep down into your very being your issues aren't with the EU, they are considerably more worrying.


I understand why people voted to leave.
I am appalled people still want to leave.

 

[Gwylan]

My opinion which you obviously won`t agree with. .
Out, we will not be subsidising the likes of Greece Spain Italy . Our businesses that are weighed down by European bureaucracy will flourish in the free world. Europeans will still want to sell to us and any tariffs will be replicated by us and both sides will soon realise (I imagine they do now) they do no one any good. Tell me what will the Spanish do with all their Salad and Fruit. Where will the Danish sell their Bacon. Where will the French sell the millions of bottles of wine we take from them. It`s not just BMW`s and Mercedes that will feel hurt in any trade war.

I'm not quite sure why you think that EU businesses will still want to sell to the UK, but UK businesses will no longer want to sell to the EU. If a company does the bulk of its business with Europe, it will want to keep it.

With a no deal, our tariffs will be zero under WTO rules.

That's not quite true. What the WTO rules say is that if there's a zero tariff on one particular product - lamb, say - then that tariff applies across the world. In other words, the tariff for the EU and New Zealand would be the same.

The government has said that agricultural produce will be zero but there will be tariffs on other goods - but have gone into no detail on that

 

[Diablo]

Greece Spain and Italy are in the euro, we aren't. Well done .

With a no deal, our tariffs will be zero under WTO rules. Again correct ! Other countries can put whatever tariffs they want onto goods they sell us, so prices will rise. Wow three out of three so far.

You seem to have veered away from saying we could be like Switzerland. Not mentioned in the last couple of posts but my opinion hasn`t changed so half right. That is because we won't be.Again half right. We can be more like Switzerland

So we mainly agree with each other !! Trade tariffs work both ways...agree or disagree ??

 

[Thunder Bolt]

My opinion which you obviously won`t agree with. .
Out, we will not be subsidising the likes of Greece Spain Italy . Our businesses that are weighed down by European bureaucracy will flourish in the free world. Europeans will still want to sell to us and any tariffs will be replicated by us and both sides will soon realise (I imagine they do now) they do no one any good. Tell me what will the Spanish do with all their Salad and Fruit. Where will the Danish sell their Bacon. Where will the French sell the millions of bottles of wine we take from them. It`s not just BMW`s and Mercedes that will feel hurt in any trade war.

I wanted to check my facts before I posted this answer. There will be no more bail outs by the UK, because David Cameron got an agreement in 2011 with the EU.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12181194

Btw, the UK did loan money to Portugal before that, which was paid back in full to us. Portugal is our oldest ally, and has been so for centuries.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I'm no expert, but am I right in thinking this all going very well?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So we mainly agree with each other !! Trade tariffs work both ways...agree or disagree ??

Not under WTO rules.

 

[CHAPPERS]

[tweet]1168822937123786753[/tweet]

 

[ManOfSussex]

It's the 'I'm happy just so long as everyone else is also suffering' argument.

Some people think 'no deal' is an actual sustainable end state, that The EU still need us more than we need them, that they wont treat us a 3rd party country for our exports (never mind whatever global tariff free-for-all's kick in here for imports) and that our leverage and standing as a country won't be further diminished once the diplomatic bad blood worsens.

 

[beorhthelm]

Brexit, with or without no deal, will not make us become like Switzerland.

rather depends on the agreements negotiated after WA. they are not in the single market, they joined Schengen about 10 years when they voted to. the swiss like to vote on many issue, and last time of asking rejected joining the EU.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Missed the first time you asked.
If you dont want to leave with no deal......accept the deal on the table.......come on now, all you remoaners say AYE, accept the deal on the table..........deathly silence!!!!!! (bar the two or three remainers on here who now think its the best idea)

- Accept May's deal.

- Amend the future relationship outline to commit to re-joining EFTA ( which we left to join the common market in the first place ). Decide on level of EEA access and trade offs later.

- Throw the DUP under the bus and have a Customs Boundary in the Irish Sea.

- Move on, live happily ever after and consign this whole sorry saga to the history books.