[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

It would be easy.

Clearly it would be pointless too.

Pearls before swine and all that.

And be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

 

[WATFORD zero]

What a brilliant argument for the benefits of Brexit. I'm surprised you haven't used it before

It has to be easier than all that swerving

 

[Baldseagull]

Great quote, but it amuses me that you don't recognise yourself as the pigeon in this case.

 

[dingodan]

This Brexit debate has really brought out the absolute worst in so many (probably otherwise decent) people.

 

[WATFORD zero]

This Brexit debate has really brought out the absolute worst in so many (probably otherwise decent) people.

Well I think everyone is being really really horrid to you, keep on asking you to explain a benefit of Brexit, even after you have made it clear that you won't, or can't give one

Oh well, at least we can get back to some detailed discussion about the issues [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION]. So what is your alternative suggestion for the backstop today ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

As it happens, I would use the term Fully Federal State, but yes I would. It is debatable as to whether it is a good or bad thing, but Brexit is not required to avoid it, so a moot point.
Forcing a federal state is not a good idea, it will happen, but it should only happen as quickly as EU citizens want it to.
Avoiding it is entirely possible by not agreeing to any further political integration, as it is the right of the UK Government to not enter into any further closer Union without detriment, and as it would also legally require a UK referendum agreeing to it, as well as both houses of Parliament agreeing to it, for any UK Government to sign up to any treaty changes, Brexit is using a Sledgehammer to (try to) crack a nut.
There is also the possibility that we rejoin the EU in the future, but without the current membership arrangements, and without the European Parliament act being reinstated, so in the end, it is probably more likely that the UK eventually becomes a member state of the European Federal State if we leave now, and it certainly does not preclude it.

Wow - I've heard it all now. So to clarify, in your mind, one of the reasons for NOT leaving is to prevent the chance of us becoming part of a future United States of Europe ??

 

[WATFORD zero]

Wow - I've heard it all now. So to clarify, in your mind, one of the reasons for NOT leaving is to prevent the chance of us becoming part of a future United States of Europe ??

I don't think you have understood what Baldseagull is saying.

He said 'Brexit is not required to avoid Britain becoming part of a Federal State'.

I believe he is saying that if we leave the EU and then rejoin, we won't have a lot of the powers that British Governments (of all political hues) have spent negotiating for us over the last 40 years. You know, the sort of things that may make some people describe our current membership as 'A good Deal' for Britain. Almost as if we have spent 40 years designing this current membership deal to protect British interests.

If, after we leave, we try to rejoin, we will be in a far weaker position.

I'm surprised his post managed to confuse you.

 

[dingodan]

Well I think everyone is being really really horrid to you, keep on asking you to explain a benefit of Brexit, even after you have made it clear that you won't, or can't give one

lol. nobody is being horrid to me.

They are just being sarcy and arrogant.

It's no skin off my nose, it's just sad. Mostly for them.

It takes courage and humility to treat those you don't agree with with respect.

Not treating those you disagree with with respect is a sign that you lack courage and humility.

It's sad for them, not me.

 

[Hampster Gull]

And now Inter-rail. Ffs. This is out of control and we know who to blame

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I don't think you have understood what Baldseagull is saying.

He said 'Brexit is not required to avoid Britain becoming part of a Federal State'.

I believe he is saying that if we leave the EU and then rejoin, we won't have a lot of the powers that British Governments (of all political hues) have spent negotiating for us over the last 40 years. You know, the sort of things that may make some people describe our current membership as 'A good Deal' for Britain. Almost as if we have spent 40 years designing this current membership deal to protect British interests.

If, after we leave, we try to rejoin, we will be in a far weaker position.

I'm surprised his post managed to confuse you.

I think it's you that's confused as you've just re-stated his argument but in different words. So yes, he ( and now you clearly ) is suggesting a benefit of remaining now is that after leaving IF we decided to re-join we would be in a worse position. No shit Sherlock ! But why would we rejoin .... we wouldn't .... so it's a stupid point.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And now Inter-rail. Ffs. This is out of control and we know who to blame

Nowt to do with Brexit.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think it's you that's confused as you've just re-stated his argument but in different words. So yes, he ( and now you clearly ) is suggesting a benefit of remaining now is that after leaving IF we decided to re-join we would be in a worse position. No shit Sherlock ! But why would we rejoin .... we wouldn't .... so it's a stupid point.

Almost as stupid as believing we were going to leave on March 30th, and then again on April 12th and then again on October 31st ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Almost as stupid as believing we were going to leave on March 30th

Well indeed

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

There was an issue on which Britain insisted there had to be movement. It was the Customs Union. Hence why the EU and British Government, in their negotiations, came up with the alternative of 'the backstop'.

Have you been asleep since 2016 ?

That's choice coming from you of all people ,remind us all what the referendum result was ,go on be a devil !
regards
DR

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

I actually love a well mannered and sincere debate, probably more than most people. Maybe more than I should.

In a debate amongst sincere people who genuinely are trying to establish the truth of things, both sides can learn something from each other if they are prepared to listen with humility and respect to the opposing view.

I don't swerve arguments. I swerve people.

I am interested in your perceived benefits of leaving the EU. Please tell me what they are so I can better understand your position on this matter.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

I don't think you have understood what Baldseagull is saying.

He said 'Brexit is not required to avoid Britain becoming part of a Federal State'.

I believe he is saying that if we leave the EU and then rejoin, we won't have a lot of the powers that British Governments (of all political hues) have spent negotiating for us over the last 40 years. You know, the sort of things that may make some people describe our current membership as 'A good Deal' for Britain. Almost as if we have spent 40 years designing this current membership deal to protect British interests.

If, after we leave, we try to rejoin, we will be in a far weaker position.

I'm surprised his post managed to confuse you.

A website confused him. What do you expect?

 

[dingodan]

I am interested in your perceived benefits of leaving the EU. Please tell me what they are so I can better understand your position on this matter.

Hmmm...

A website confused him. What do you expect?

Ah...

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I am interested in your perceived benefits of leaving the EU. Please tell me what they are so I can better understand your position on this matter.

2322 pages and you've been unable to read all the posts giving the benefits ? Yet there have been hundreds, no, thousands of posts giving the benefits. Are you a bit slow on the up take ?

 

[Baldseagull]

Wow - I've heard it all now. So to clarify, in your mind, one of the reasons for NOT leaving is to prevent the chance of us becoming part of a future United States of Europe ??

No, to clarify, just pointing out that Brexit is neither required, or makes it more likely to avoid it, if that is what the people of the UK want. i.e. not a well reasoned argument in favour of Brexit.

I do not think it will happen in my lifetime whether we leave or remain, but one day I believe it will. I am ready for it but I accept most of the UK and the rest of Europe is not, steps towards it should not be made if people do not want it.

 

[Lever]

This Brexit debate has really brought out the absolute worst in so many (probably otherwise decent) people.

Do you include yourself in that assessment?