[Politics] Brexit

[Mo Gosfield]

Hard to argue with these excellent points which destroy most of the Brexiteers' nonsense about sovereignty and the supposed economic/trading benefits of life beyond the EU. Worth pointing out, also, the decades of peace between countries that waged 2 horrendous wars in the first half of the last century - the existence of the EU certainly helped. Plus the opportunities to travel, study, work live and love across 28 countries which the Brexiteers seek to deny to us and our children. The top dogs of Brexit have an (often self-serving)agenda of deregulation and 'leave it to the market' and, rightly, see the EU as a hindrance. Wrapping themselves in the Union Jack and stoking fear of foreigners and the modern world are hateful and dangerous tricks to win a wider audience.

Membership of the EU doesn't actually suit us as much as some others, particularly Germany. We are forced to run a massively increasing trade deficit with Europe( £70bn ) because we are not a manufacturing country. Our strength is in services. Our terms of membership should have been re-negotiated years ago to better suit our changing trading profile. It wasn't and its a disgrace that we allowed our political leaders to fail us over and over again, whilst we continued to lose ground to others.
We could have been doing so much better. Lions led by Donkeys.

 

[albion68]

Well we would have if those pesky Brexit supporting MPs hadn't kept on voting against it

Did not pretty much all the Labour MP`s vote against TM`s deals ,that would been enough to stop them getting through. ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Did not pretty much all the Labour MP`s vote against TM`s deals ,that would been enough to stop them getting through. ?

Not without the help of those Brexit supporting MPs, it wouldn't. Labour don't have a majority

 

[albion68]

Not without the help of those Brexit supporting MPs, it wouldn't. Labour don't have a majority

TM`s second vote was 391 against 242 ,if the 75 Con voted for it would be 317 which would leave 316 against ,very close ,they needed 3 Labour and 4 ind to get to 242 because total Con came to 310 ,235 +75 ,so those 3 Labour made all the difference . The labour vote was one of the main reasons TM`s deals did not get through they were against it for different reasons workers rights etc or to force a general election possibly ?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Exactly.

Because MPs of all sides wouldn't compromise, we will now end up with a right-wing, no-deal Brexiteer as PM.

The way I see it the country has been drifting along a narrow lane for three years and has finally reached a main road. There is a brick wall opposite. The choice before us is to turn one way or the other, to hard Brexit or soft deal.

Tell me about the compromise direction you feel we should take.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Membership of the EU doesn't actually suit us as much as some others, particularly Germany. We are forced to run a massively increasing trade deficit with Europe( £70bn ) because we are not a manufacturing country. Our strength is in services. Our terms of membership should have been re-negotiated years ago to better suit our changing trading profile. It wasn't and its a disgrace that we allowed our political leaders to fail us over and over again, whilst we continued to lose ground to others.
We could have been doing so much better. Lions led by Donkeys.

Sometimes it's best to remember that 'the EU' is not an homogeneous blob. So when you say that we run a trade deficit with the EU, you are really saying that on balance we import more from the other 27 member countries than we export to them. While it would be good were it the other way round we need to remember that such a trade deficit arises because our trading partners make things that are better and/or cheaper than we make them ourselves. This benefits consumers as it's our consumers that drive this relationship. I think we have to beware of the Trump paradigm - that trade is a zero-sum game and that any trade deficit that the US has with another country is due to some sort of underhand tactic. (OK, with China he has a point. But our EU partners are not China.)

I'm not sure quite how renegotiating our terms of membership would address the trade imbalance. Surely you are not suggesting we should have imposed trade barriers on the EU countries? Not only would this have been illegal but ultimately self defeating, leading to a lose-lose outcome.


There are sometimes no easy answers - and on balance the EU has been part of the solution and not part of the problem. We'll only fully test this proposition if we leave - but it will be a lesson painfully learned.

 

[A1X]

Did not pretty much all the Labour MP`s vote against TM`s deals ,that would been enough to stop them getting through. ?

Several of the Labour MPs are themselves Brexiters (Hoey, Field, Flint etc.)

 

[Hampster Gull]

Let’s see if the Tories represent old WASPs or modern Britain, London and Brighton.

 

[Hu_Camus]

Have your Brexit opinions changed

Three years on, just how much have our opinions shifted?
So counting yourself as broadly neutral before at 5, and after still broadly neutral at 5 you're a '0'
If you were very strongly for one side, and are now very strongly for the other you'd be a 10.
My statistical curiosity is about whether people have re-evaluated their stance, and not necessarily their opinions per se.

 

[Baker lite]

I’m a 12.

 

[seagullwedgee]

Is the answer “Milan”?

 

[Badger]

There's no way this thread will turn into another Brexit binfest. Absolutely no way.

 

[Fungus]

Wow, I'm in a majority of 100% at the moment!

 

[Hu_Camus]

There's no way this thread will turn into another Brexit binfest. Absolutely no way.

What's a binfest?

 

[Weststander]

I’ve been a Remainer on economic grounds throughout.

(With an understanding of the concerns of Brexiteers on; record immigration and the increasing powers of Brussels/Strasbourg).

But due to the rise of selfish, belligerent Nationalism across the globe, for example Trump and the right wing Franco apologists in Spain, I increasingly believe that the EU with us in it is a cause for good.


p.s. I can’t hate the Brexiteers on NSC or Brexit politicians such as JRM, Johnson, Corbyn, McDonnell, Farage or Robinson. Just can’t bring myself to hate people with a view.

 

[Gwylan]

What's a binfest?

You must be new here

 

[Hu_Camus]

You must be new here

That implies that it's a village forum, for village people.
Let me guess......Native American, right?

 

[knocky1]

I’ve been a Remainer on economic grounds throughout.

(With an understanding of the concerns of Brexiteers on; record immigration and the increasing powers of Brussels/Strasbourg).

But due to the rise of selfish, belligerent Nationalism across the globe, for example Trump and the right wing Franco apologists in Spain, I increasingly believe that the EU with us in it is a cause for good.


p.s. I can’t hate the Brexiteers on NSC or Brexit politicians such as JRM, Johnson, Corbyn, McDonnell, Farage or Robinson. Just can’t bring myself to hate people with a view.

Absolutely. I don’t hate them. I despise them and am saddened.

 

[macbeth]

I was a reluctant remainer at the time of the referendum. Now, I'd happily adopt French as the national language, drive on the right and fire the entire UKIP membership into space.

 

[Hu_Camus]

Absolutely. I don’t hate them. I despise them and am saddened.

Open minds all round on the friendly forum.