[Politics] Brexit

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Inappropriate but hard to disagree

This. Very much.

 

[Hampster Gull]

This train is delayed due to leavers on the line.

Aww, bless them

 

[Seaber]

Looks like we've got our first resignation as a result of last night - Nigel Adams from the Office of the Secretary of State for Wales.

Also looks like a major, major ****storm is brewing in regards to Jeremy Corbyn and some video footage of the Parachute Regiment hard at work.

From Sky reporter's Twitter:

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/status/1113352300037398528

 

[pastafarian]

So because you disagree on the WTO point, you believe we could ignore all the other reasons we weren't preparing for 'no deal' and just push ahead regardless

Oh, and Incidentally

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-a-balanced-and-progressive-trade-policy-to-harness-globalisation/file-brexit-tariff-rate-quotas-in-the-wto

Relevant bits

An EU-UK agreement on splitting the quotas was reached and submitted to the WTO partners in October 2017. The Council agreed on the proposal on 29 October 2018 (after we had submitted our schedules).

But apparently this decision that was taken after we submitted the schedule was what was holding up our submission

Try and read the post again, I never said the agreement on splitting TRQ was not reached in oct 2017. It was.
The relevant part is the commission decision to authorise the UK to undertake procedures for our own schedule with WTO as a departing member.
This was done on 22/05/18
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/ALL/?uri=CELEX:52018PC0311

There was some rewording done for legal reasons on other relevant parts of the proposals discussed here in parliamentary business 20th june 2018
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmeuleg/301-xxxi/30108.htm

The Council authorised the commission to open negotiations within the WTO on tariff rate quotas on the 26th june 2018
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/...th-wto-members-on-brexit-related-adjustments/

http://europeanmemoranda.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/files/2018/06/Bill_Cash_-_8944_9254_-_12jun2018.pdf

Should have written done by the end of june instead of done in june, dreadfully sorry, it was late
Under the duty of sincere cooperation these proposals and decision are enough to get the ball rolling.
That October decision is more about delegating further powers to the commission on
unilateral apportionment of the quotas, whilst WTO talks are ongoing as the timeline was getting tight.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

If Theresa May is willing to bypass half of her own government, hopefully she's also kicked the neanderthals of the DUP back into the long grass that they crawled out of

 

[CHAPPERS]

https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/03/ther...-trying-to-drag-corbyn-down-with-her-9102013/

In just nine days’ time, the UK could crash out of the EU in a disastrous no-deal Brexit – or we could begin a democratic process that might heal our communities and ensure we never face a political crisis like this again. Finally acknowledging that nothing will unite the two Tory parties, and that the polls suggest they’d be annihilated in a general election, the prime minister is turning to Jeremy Corbyn. On the surface she appears open to accepting Labour’s idea of a soft Brexit – but her plan looks distinctly like a trap. Theresa May is sinking, and she’s trying to drag Corbyn down with her. She knows full well that the EU won’t countenance any binding changes to her deal. The best Corbyn could hope for from these talks would be a bit of aspirational language in the political declaration about trying to secure a customs union.
With May having promised to step down if her deal passes to make way for an extreme Brexiteer, that language won’t be worth the paper it’s written on.

And if this week is wasted renegotiating a dead deal, we will miss our chance to request the long Article 50 extension we need to deliver something better. Instead of acquiescing in a damaging Brexit and rolling out the red carpet for Prime Minister Johnson, Corbyn should get behind his backbenchers. Today MPs will try to secure time to discuss Yvette Cooper’s crucial bill – which would force Theresa May to ask the EU for more time. With the stalemate continuing, Parliament must pile into this lifeboat legislation. At stake are our constituents’ futures. Cabinet Secretary Mark Sedwill this week issued a harrowing warning of what no-deal could mean for people’s lives. Food prices could rise by 10 per cent – at a time when the botched roll-out of Universal Credit is forcing thousands to rely on food banks. Businesses that trade with the EU could face collapse – putting livelihoods at risk and piling pressure on the Government to spend public money on bailing them out. Our country would be less safe, as police and security services lose access to vital law enforcement tools like the European Arrest Warrant.

In Northern Ireland, the volume and controversy of necessary decisions mean the government would impose direct rule – a move that could inflame an already tense situation. And, given the government’s abject failure to replace the EU regulators we rely on, polluters would be free to poison our rivers, trash our countryside and destroy precious habitats for wildlife. This cliff-edge is just days away.

But none of that is inevitable. If this process has taught us anything, it’s that everything can change within a matter of hours. There is still time for MPs to force a long Article 50 extension, and to use those extra months to deliver the hope our society needs. At this point, democracy is the only constructive way forward, and that must start with European Parliament elections in May. Disorganised and divided, the Conservatives are terrified of this prospect – extolling the virtues of the 2016 referendum result, while avoiding further democracy at all costs. Instead of dreading how the public might respond, all sides should embrace these inevitable elections as an opportunity to set out clear policies on the EU. For the Green Party, that means as well as celebrating its achievements, we also need to acknowledge its flaws and champion bold reforms to build a fairer, greener, more democratic Europe. From there, a public conversation about our national priorities can begin in earnest ahead of a People’s Vote. While Brexiteers offer anger and blame, any new Remain campaign must set out a manifesto designed to fix Britain instead. Politicians have spent the past three years telling Leave voters what they want – so those of us who believe we have bigger problems than Brexit must empower those communities to speak for themselves. By committing to citizens’ assemblies – where representative groups of people hear independent evidence and carefully consider an issue – we can let the public decide how new long-term investment should be spent in their areas, for example, and how regions and local councils should be empowered to make decisions. By offering a fairer electoral system where every vote counts, we could end our fracturing two-party system and introduce a spirit of compromise to our politics that might prevent another crisis.

By setting out plans to transform our economy – through a Green New Deal designed to create hundreds of thousands of green jobs and tackle climate breakdown – we can reverse inequality and deliver security to communities hollowed out by austerity and deindustrialisation. And by listening to people’s concerns about immigration, we can work with communities who’ve experienced rapid changes to strengthen local public services and make the opportunities of free movement available to all. Those are the ideas Labour should be getting behind if Corbyn’s true priority is building a fairer society – not limiting the damage of a dangerous Brexit. A matter of days before we face a disastrous no-deal, I don’t pretend any easy answers exist. But with Labour’s support, MPs can end Parliament’s paralysis by creating the space we need for democracy. We must pass Yvette Cooper’s Bill and use the coming months to fix Britain.

Can't help but agree with this. Corbyn is being set up.

 

[Is it PotG?]

 

[pastafarian]

The problem with this is there will have been people who voted leave who made the assumption that a good deal would have been possible. I could point you to quotes from various leave campaigners who insisted this would be the case. It turns out, the negotiated deal is a shambles and the no-deal scenario is widely regarded as disastrous. If you honestly think leave would have won if they had known that was the choice we were going to be given, I think you have a screw loose.

So for me, either have a second referendum with a remain option, or better still don't have one at all and let the Tories sort it out so that they can be held accountable for the obvious drop off in UK living standards after Brexit.

Another referendum with a remain option is simply another IN/OUT referendum. This is the part that horrifies people who have concerns about the democratic accountability of parliament to the people. It is nothing to do with potentially losing a re-run vote(leave would win again anyway) it is the absolute disastrous harm that would be done by telling the people to vote again. It would be catastrophic to go down that route.
Best go with your prefered option two, no referendum at all. Leave the EU.
Just imagine if brexit doesnt work out (it will be fine) you can them democratically hold the tories to account and back a rejoin party and government and democratically hold a referendum on rejoining.
The leave vote has been respected, the public gets to drain the swamp in parliament after and there is a further democratic vote on rejoining after we have left- the resulting decision from that MUST be respected and adhered to as well.

 

[peterward]

If Theresa May is willing to bypass half of her own government, hopefully she's also kicked the neanderthals of the DUP back into the long grass that they crawled out of

Don't worry The saviour of Brexit is here.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Or this

 

[Simster]

[tweet]1113130021093347328[/tweet]

This ^

 

[peterward]

https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/03/ther...-trying-to-drag-corbyn-down-with-her-9102013/



Can't help but agree with this. Corbyn is being set up.

I cannot stand Corbyn, but I agree...... He will dip his hands in the blood and have his name associated with it all and share equal blame, or he'll again try and pull out, talk it down and be branded as petty, not a statesmen and acting in party interest. I dont think this is a genuine reach out, its politically calculated.

rather than the bollox of no deal is better than a bad deal, the reality is any old deal is better than no deal.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I have posted it a number of times, if you want a new referendum following on from the democratic decision to leave,asking how we should leave then ask the binary leaving question.

A/ Leave the EU with the withdrawal agreement
or
B/Leave the EU without a withdrawal agreement

Remainers get to vote as well obviously......Remainers dont want this question asked though.

Er... my comment that we didn't realise that you were against the suggested second referendum was light-hearted irony, triggered by the fact that you have decried a Ref2 at least 500 times.

Hope you're OK.

 

[pastafarian]

Er... my comment that we didn't realise that you were against the suggested second referendum was light-hearted irony, triggered by the fact that you have decried a Ref2 at least 500 times.

Hope you're OK.

Mine isnt a repeat referendum though, you were explicit ....do a remain/leave referendum again.
Hence my WTF

I know you are not OK

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Apparently trains cancelled due to LEAVES on the line

They are getting desperate now...

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

See post #83299 - the EU are unhappy with the deal given to the Swiss, so will certainly never offer that to any other nation, let alone a better than that deal.

They certainly won’t offer a better deal.

 

[vegster]

I cannot stand Corbyn, but I agree...... He will dip his hands in the blood and have his name associated with it all and share equal blame, or he'll again try and pull out, talk it down and be branded as petty, not a statesmen and acting in party interest. I dont think this is a genuine reach out, its politically calculated.

rather than the bollox of no deal is better than a bad deal, the reality is any old deal is better than no deal.

Ooohhhh.... " Dip his hands in the blood "? Calm down dear.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Any second referendum should be May's Deal or Remain. This No Deal bullshit has got to stop.

Nobody really believes No Deal can be a success, apart from those who can personally profit from it.

 

[Stat Brother]

Ooohhhh.... " Dip his hands in the blood "? Calm down dear.

The fact that Jez has steadfastly refused to dip his hand in Brexit for the last 3 years, makes me doubt he'll suddenly dip his hands in anything else, any time soon.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Any second referendum should be May's Deal or Remain. This No Deal bullshit has got to stop.

Nobody really believes No Deal can be a success, apart from those who can personally profit from it.

I see when it was pointed out in cabinet yesterday that no deal would mean direct rule in Northern Ireland among other things, Andrea Leadsom is reported to have suggested we just call it something else to get round the problem.