[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

I have a very good grasp of the functioning of the EU and all the various options being touted as Brexit options. I personally voted for a WTO (which would quite quickly turn into a trade agreement with the EU) but becuase of the division in the country, would personally accept what is not the clean brexit I hoped for, that would placate remainers to a degree and would get us OUT of the undemocratic political union. The remain establishment have branded the true brexit as crashing off a cliff. It's bollox. For rubber stamp parliamentarians brexit is a problem to be managed not an opportunity to be seized.

As for knowing what I was voting for, I will concede I did not anticipate that we would end up with a remain PM in a remain cabinet with a remain parliament and a remain speaker all willing to ignore the democratic decision they all promised to uphold. This in defience of the 2 main parties manifestos to take us out of SM, CU and ECJ whilst ignoring centuries of parliamentary precedent. Its destroying the credibility we live in a free and fair democracy where citizens decide at the ballot box.

Could you imagine if the SNP had won Indyref1 and similar deceit, obfuscation and chicanery had been used to try and keep them in? We'd have 1000's of Robert the Bruce wannabes causing chaos.

The remain/leave question was like 2 fellas with a radio.The default position was the radio is on, but the other fella wants it turned off. They can't agree, so they decide to flip for it and both swear to abide by the decision. When off wins, the "on" fella immediately calls for best of 3... When that doesn't work, he tries to block access to the on/off switch and starts a campaign of attrition....claiming the other guy surely didn't want it off...maybe he meant to just change the channel, or maybe what he really meant was he actually wanted to keep it on but just turn the volume down. Surely that will suffice.

"Do you want to leave the European Union" was already answered.

You have that back to front, the leave position is more like having the radio on, more of you voted for the radio on than off, so it is on, now we are arguing about which station we should be tuned to, and it now looks like, that given the range of stations we can actually receive, most people would rather just turn it off now, but you are insisting it must be on, even if most people now want it off.

 

[peterward]

But amongst leave voters, there are some that would prefer to remain than have a Norway deal, and most remainers given a choice of only leave options would probably vote for Norway, it is possible that we would end up with a Brexit that remainers chose, while most leavers would have preferred to remain.

i don't think most leavers would prefer remain than Norway, in the same vein as most remainers wouldn't prefer leave to Norway. There are some, and fwiw Norway is not "leaving the European union" that was on the ballot paper.

Its just got to the point now whereby the country is so divided..... all camps are dug in and refusing to concede an Inch. If remain side manages to overturn referendum 1 (and there's a good chance it may), the division and anger will not dissipate it will go to a much higher level.

Do I want Norway? no, its not Brexit and many of the opportunities of being outside the EU are lost, would I love WTO? yes, but its obvious that is going to piss off a lot of people, there is no WIN/WIN that unites the country

 

[peterward]

You have that back to front, the leave position is more like having the radio on, more of you voted for the radio on than off, so it is on, now we are arguing about which station we should be tuned to, and it now looks like, that given the range of stations we can actually receive, most people would rather just turn it off now, but you are insisting it must be on, even if most people now want it off.

No its not!, the default position is the radio is on, we want to change the default position (and turn it off) a clean change from the status quo position. Its the other side that try and muddy the waters of what off actually means and try multiple different ways to obstruct and keep it on in some form.

 

[Baldseagull]

I cant believe you FBPE twitter types still keep saying with your cherry picked phrase that he was saying we remain members of the single market, he wasn’t, he was always quite clear we should be free of ECJ jurisdiction, the body that regulates the single market, free of the EU governance on the single market that imposes domestic technical standards and regulations on the whole economy, but trade with the single market with preferential parts of it, outside of being members of it, always maintainedd definitely not be in the EEA and was clear end free movement but compromise on parts of it. There is no way that is remaining members of the single market. He was always consistent on this.
Do you get some sort of weird kick out of believing without question random peoples twatter opinions and reposting the bullcrap..
Nearly everyone in the world has access to and trades with the single market, just on differing preferential terms.



Daniel Hannan:
“Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing.”
“Britain, as a relatively large economy which exports more to non-EU than to EU markets, would be better off trading freely with the single market than belonging to it”

https://www.conservativehome.com/th...gle-market-access-are-not-the-same-thing.html

Weaseling Dan Hannan.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Sure, but if the voters aren't forgiving the Lib Dems, that's up to the voters, it's not the fault of the Tories.

Funny that having got their mates in the media to discredit the Lib Dems the Tories then win a majority on the back of lost Lib Dem seats. Hatchet job done, full steam ahead on Brexit Referendum, the rest is history.

Like them or loathe them, British politics seems far healthier when there's a coherent centre ground voice, which is why the Change UK party will attract significant support.

 

[Baldseagull]

Newsnight covered the Swiss - EU deal recently. Apparently it irks the EU, with several member states angry that it is so one-sided in favour of Switzerland. Unfortunately, they’re not going to sign another agreement like that.

I think they might have done, if we had gone for that earlier on but not now, Hannan though was expecting us to get something rather better (not specifying what would make it rather better)

 

[peterward]

Funny that having got their mates in the media to discredit the Lib Dems the Tories then win a majority on the back of lost Lib Dem seats. Hatchet job done, full steam ahead on Brexit Referendum, the rest is history.

Like them or loathe them, British politics seems far healthier when there's a coherent centre ground voice, which is why the Change UK party will attract significant support.

Change UK lol, whats the change stand for....... Change party? Change mind? Bunch of lying establishment hippocrites that insist on a peoples vote to check again, after weve already had a peoples vote, but don't think they need to submit themselves to a peoples vote in their own constituency to all those who clearly voted for a party only to find their vote "Change".

 

[Baldseagull]

I have posted it a number of times, if you want a new referendum following on from the democratic decision to leave,asking how we should leave then ask the binary leaving question.

A/ Leave the EU with the withdrawal agreement
or
B/Leave the EU without a withdrawal agreement

Remainers get to vote as well obviously......Remainers dont want this question asked though.

Well, that would be like giving you a choice to remain in status quo, or remain and adopt the Euro, open up to Schengen, bail out Greece unilaterally, drop the rebate and take French as an official language of the UK

 

[Pavilionaire]

Change UK lol, whats the change stand for....... Change party? Change mind? Bunch of lying establishment hippocrites that insist on a peoples vote to check again, after weve already had a peoples vote, but don't think they need to submit themselves to a peoples vote in their own constituency to all those who clearly voted for a party only to find their vote "Change".

I take your point but, politically, if 6 million people sign a petition for revoke Article 50 then that suggests there's a sizeable well of potential support for them to tap into. They were already polling 11% even before they were a party.

 

[peterward]

I take your point but, politically, if 6 million people sign a petition for revoke Article 50 then that suggests there's a sizeable well of potential support for them to tap into. They were already polling 11% even before they were a party.

6 million email addresses, not 6 million people.... one fella admitted he'd used a program to sign it 15k times, which is what happened with the first second referendum petition, lots of bots.

Im actually glad for change UK, it will split the labour vote more

 

[fruitnveg]

CUK will change nothing. Hilarious mistep by TIG to change their name. Suits them.

 

[dingodan]

[tweet]1113233807686217728[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

6 million email addresses, not 6 million people.... one fella admitted he'd used a program to sign it 15k times, which is what happened with the first second referendum petition, lots of bots.

Im actually glad for change UK, it will split the labour vote more

Every 24 hours the petition was 'cleansed' of any false names. It can be checked by constituency. There were not bots as emails had to be confirmed & postcodes verified.
Don't believe everything you read.

 

[The Clamp]

Every 24 hours the petition was 'cleansed' of any false names. It can be checked by constituency. There were not bots as emails had to be confirmed & postcodes verified.
Don't believe everything you read.

I don’t think a lot of these people are interested in truth.

 

[dwayne]

Please stop your WTO related nonsense now, its getting ridiculous
We did not submit our WTO schedule within the first couple of months because it was not possible to submit our WTO schedule within the first couple of months, nothing to do with no deal being a non starter.
A schedule has to include our submissions on Tariff Rate Quotas, before we could do that we had to negotiate with the EU, separately from withdrawal talks, a methodology for dividing up the existing tariff rate quotas between UK and the EU, when this is completed you need a Council and Commission decision to acknowledge the quotas methodology has been agreed and a subsequent ruling therefore to allow an existing member to be able to submit its own WTO schedule because it is departing the Union, this was done in june 2018, we submitted our draft schedule to the WTO shortly after that in july 2018.

Good post.

I'm a remainer but I must admit I'm getting bored of Watford zero's tedious, patronising ramblings on this thread. He is the type that has given remainer's a bad name.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[beorhthelm]

Every 24 hours the petition was 'cleansed' of any false names. It can be checked by constituency. There were not bots as emails had to be confirmed & postcodes verified.

email verification can be automated, postcodes just another piece of data in a list. theres web pages for creating fake addresses. im not sure i believe claims but its possible someone inclined could do this.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Quick reminder about the mis-information being spread about the single market :

(Thread)
https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1073867169723756544?s=19

Oh, and "Norway don't want us" is also a lie - one politician ( with their own separate agenda, and not stating the official position ) said this.

 

[Chicken Run]

Funny that having got their mates in the media to discredit the Lib Dems the Tories then win a majority on the back of lost Lib Dem seats. Hatchet job done, full steam ahead on Brexit Referendum, the rest is history.

Like them or loathe them, British politics seems far healthier when there's a coherent centre ground voice, which is why the Change UK party will attract significant support.

The Lib Dems discredited themselves in the eyes of their voters!

 

[nicko31]

Every 24 hours the petition was 'cleansed' of any false names. It can be checked by constituency. There were not bots as emails had to be confirmed & postcodes verified.
Don't believe everything you read.

What we do know is for every 10 people that signed the petition to revoke Article 50 there is only 1 that wants to crash out of the EU with no deal.

The facts hurt, Britain doesn't want a hard Brexit and a majority would now be content to call the whole thing off

 

[KingKev]

The Lib Dems discredited themselves in the eyes of their voters!

And as such you could make an argument that it was Clegg and co’s misstep on tuition fees which was the defining act which put us on the road to the referendum and then to where we are today...oh the irony.