[Politics] Brexit

[Stat Brother]

I'm afraid cognitive dissonance continues amongst leavers, meanwhile Brexit is costing £5-600m/week and still we carry on.

Let's spend that on the NHS instead.

 

[CHAPPERS]

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[Triggaaar]

One of the common arguments I hear on a regular basis is that leavers did not know what they were voting for. The same could be said for those who voted remain. Did they know what they were really voting for?

No, they wouldn't be certain exactly what the future holds, but it would have been more known that which type of Brexit we would be getting.

As far as I can see, the only real argument against a second referendum is if you want us to Leave, and you're concerned that either there was never a majority wanting any specific leave vs remain, or you're concerned that the voters have changed thei mind.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Some MPs have been having tutorials this week learning about the Customs Union. If they don't know, then how on earth will the general public be able to decide? It only covers goods, not services and service industries in this country also need trade deals.

Quite. There is no way that the general public should be given another choice. MP's must step up, stop playing games and make a decision.

Margaret Beckett is on Politics Live and just said that MP's have had 2 days to make a decision, the PM has had 3 years. What the F have MPs been doing for the last 3 years then? Opposing the deal without knowing the full facts by the sounds of things. A pathetic excuse.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1113033361373782021?s=19

Full speed ahead to the *no deal* country killer.

Putin has nearly won.

 

[Two Professors]

He's not as daft as I thought,unlike some on here.
Some idiot remoaner stockpiler up here completely cleared out Tesco of Weetabix.It's made in Kettering,with wheat sourced within the local area!And they call us thick.

 

[rippleman]

Has May played a clever game here in order to thwart Brexit that she was vehemently opposed to?

- drag out a deal until the latest possible date

- agree a deal that she knows that the DUP, and a significant number of her own party, would never support

- waste time bringing back the deal to Parliament over and over

- end up requesting a long extension to either revoke Article 50 or have another referendum

Could she have been that smart? Let's face it, as a committed remainer she was never going to make it easy for us to leave as the referendum determined.

 

[seagulls4ever]

No, it couldn't. They don't have the numbers.

Yes it can. Yes they do. Had they they voted for Norway+ or a customs union (or even abstained in the case of the latter), those motions would have had a majority.

Of course you can look at other options and move the numbers around and come up with different arguments too. The DUP voted against as well (for different reasons). But in the case of the other parties, they voted against any compromise Brexit, and for a confirmatory vote and revoking Article 50.

This is what Norman Lamb had to say:

Liberal Democrat Norman Lamb told BBC Look East he was "ashamed to be a member of this Parliament" and hit out at MPs in his own party - five of whom voted against a customs union and four of whom voted against Common Market 2.0.

He said the Commons was "playing with fire and will unleash dark forces unless we learn to compromise".

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Has May played a clever game here in order to thwart Brexit that she was vehemently opposed to?

- drag out a deal until the latest possible date

- agree a deal that she knows that the DUP, and a significant number of her own party, would never support

- waste time bringing back the deal to Parliament over and over

- end up requesting a long extension to either revoke Article 50 or have another referendum

Could she have been that smart? Let's face it, as a committed remainer she was never going to make it easy for us to leave as the referendum determined.

I thought that at first, until I looked at Philip May. He is pulling her strings. Self interest.

 

[Triggaaar]

How does that achieve anything but remain. If the leave vote wins we are back where we were.

No, because a new referendum wouldn't be the same as the old one. It would be something like a) take specific leave deal b) remain, and if people voted in favour of a specific leave deal, parliament would go with that deal.

 

[seagulls4ever]

No, because a new referendum wouldn't be the same as the old one. It would be something like a) take specific leave deal b) remain, and if people voted in favour of a specific leave deal, parliament would go with that deal.

Maybe there could also be a choice for if we Leave, what kind of Leave would you prefer (probably maximum of two choices so as not to split votes by three or more). But perhaps that's too complicated.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

View attachment 106957

He's not as daft as I thought,unlike some on here.
Some idiot remoaner stockpiler up here completely cleared out Tesco of Weetabix.It's made in Kettering,with wheat sourced within the local area!And they call us thick.

You do yourself no favours with posts like that. 'Idiot remoaner and accusing others of calling leavers thick'.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Has May played a clever game here in order to thwart Brexit that she was vehemently opposed to?

- drag out a deal until the latest possible date

- agree a deal that she knows that the DUP, and a significant number of her own party, would never support

- waste time bringing back the deal to Parliament over and over

- end up requesting a long extension to either revoke Article 50 or have another referendum

Could she have been that smart? Let's face it, as a committed remainer she was never going to make it easy for us to leave as the referendum determined.

^^All of this is a very small part of why I've thought Brexit wouldn't happen. Also, why would Terry May choose to go down the No Deal route now, when she could've done that on 29th March?

 

[nicko31]

How does that achieve anything but remain. If the leave vote wins we are back where we were. We may as well just drop article 50
And be done with it

May's deal is Brexit its just not defined as the Tories have wasted their 2 years with elections and a constant civil war. Do you want Brexit or not? Its just the WD, all to play for....

Why should the UK be subjected to No Deal that there is little desire for and certainly not a majority

 

[nicko31]

Nick Boles is blaming his own party for refusing to compromise.

[tweet]1113020792210710534[/tweet]

Its a loss for Tories and reduces further the chance of the Tories ever winning a majority again. Only 2 years since 1997 and lets face it, will they have attracted any new voters since 2017?

The young in particular loath the Tories now and they are the future...

 

[Baldseagull]

Has May played a clever game here in order to thwart Brexit that she was vehemently opposed to?

- drag out a deal until the latest possible date

- agree a deal that she knows that the DUP, and a significant number of her own party, would never support

- waste time bringing back the deal to Parliament over and over

- end up requesting a long extension to either revoke Article 50 or have another referendum

Could she have been that smart? Let's face it, as a committed remainer she was never going to make it easy for us to leave as the referendum determined.

No, she tried, just failed quite badly.
There is no good way forward from where we are, all choices come with problems, and there are too many MP's with an eye on the next election.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

One of the common arguments I hear on a regular basis is that leavers did not know what they were voting for. The same could be said for those who voted remain. Did they know what they were really voting for?

The accepted direction of travel of the EU is ever closer political union. The Lisbon treaty will inevitably have to be changed by further treaty in order to progress this ever closer union and to tighten the rules of membership. If the UK remains then we will be expected to become full members of the EU as it moves towards full convergence by 2025. The U.K. can therefore expect to have to accept some or all of the following within the next two to ten years.


1) Losing its rebate.
2) Joining Schengen.
3) Joining the euro.
4) Uniform corporate and personal taxation.
5) Uniform regulation of financial services.
6) EU jurisprudence.
7) Budgetary supervision by an EU treasury.
8) Formalised EU armed forces, operational and procurement structures.
9) EU foreign, defence and security policies taking precedence over national forces and policies.
10) Mandatory migrant quotas.
11) Removal of Article 50.
12) Other transfers of competencies from member states to the EU, i.e. further losses of sovereignty.

I get the impression that many remain voters voted for the status quo. That is not possible if you consider the direction the EU is traveling. If you voted remain and accept these as possible outcomes and accept that the EU represents technocratic supra-nationalism, then I have no problem with that whatsoever. Personally I prefer sovereign national democracy but each to their own.

The Fact Check on social media posts which are trying to say the Lisbon Treaty will enforce legislation in 2020. The information is from ThatsNonsense who fact check everything on social media.

https://www.thatsnonsense.com/social-media-posts-outlines-26-points-of-the-lisbon-treaty-fact-check

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1112980165678809088[/tweet]

 

[beorhthelm]

Has May played a clever game here in order to thwart Brexit that she was vehemently opposed to?

- drag out a deal until the latest possible date

- agree a deal that she knows that the DUP, and a significant number of her own party, would never support

- waste time bringing back the deal to Parliament over and over

- end up requesting a long extension to either revoke Article 50 or have another referendum

Could she have been that smart? Let's face it, as a committed remainer she was never going to make it easy for us to leave as the referendum determined.

definatly not that smart. and the numbers from last night show there isnt support among for revoking either, so its not going to work. the answer here imo is for Labour to not whip another vote on the leave deal. if it still loses, then MP have to revoke. no deal happens by default if they string it out another 10 days.

bottom line is all those in favour of the custom union option should back the leave deal, as we remain in the customs union for at least the transition period. this is the objection from hard brexit, and that we wont ever leave. which is what supporters of customs union want. we then have 18 mths to negotiate the rest of the relations, to include staying in the customs union.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes it can. Yes they do. Had they they voted for Norway+ or a customs union (or even abstained in the case of the latter), those motions would have had a majority.

Of course you can look at other options and move the numbers around and come up with different arguments too. The DUP voted against as well (for different reasons). But in the case of the other parties, they voted against any compromise Brexit, and for a confirmatory vote and revoking Article 50.

This is what Norman Lamb had to say:

Liberal Democrat Norman Lamb told BBC Look East he was "ashamed to be a member of this Parliament" and hit out at MPs in his own party - five of whom voted against a customs union and four of whom voted against Common Market 2.0.

He said the Commons was "playing with fire and will unleash dark forces unless we learn to compromise".

Voting numbers

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