[Politics] Brexit

[Triggaaar]

It's not a question of them not understanding it and therefore not voting, it's a question of them not understanding it AND voting.

Oh they will vote, I wasn't disputing that, but they might not be voting for exactly what they want. No bid deal IMO.

But putting a 1 by your 1st choice, 2 by your 2nd choice, 3 by your 3rd choice, is not exactly complicated.

Or, Remain or Leave with a supplementary question for Leave voters asking which of two specific versions they prefer. The answers to the second question would be applied if Leave beat Remain.

No, that doesn't work. Say for example the Leave options were May's Deal, and No Deal. A leaver might like May's deal, but failing that they'd rather remain than No Deal, because No Deal is so bad. Your option wouldn't give them that choice.

 

[nicko31]

An English nationalist tantrum imposed on us all. So much damage and nobody wins...

 

[CHAPPERS]

Jeremy Hunt is now deciding what Brexit means.

Customs Union:

I think people would see it as very curious that a country that voted to take back control is choosing to cede control in a number of areas of vital national interest.

And I think they’d also be concerned that it would not resolve the national debate on Brexit because many of the people who voted for Brexit would not see this as delivering a true Brexit

Yeah but you know KNOW that do you because it wasn't on the voting paper. ****ing hell. ****ing Tories.

 

[Simster]

No, that doesn't work. Say for example the Leave options were May's Deal, and No Deal. A leaver might like May's deal, but failing that they'd rather remain than No Deal, because No Deal is so bad. Your option wouldn't give them that choice.

Indeed. Second preference vote would sort it: Leave with no deal, Leave with May's deal, remain.

 

[The Tactician]

PV are fundamentalists, and as bad as the ERG for sure.

It is in their interests to crush sensible, compromise Brexits, so that any vote is against the most extreme and damaging Brexit - which would in their minds make any vote most winnable.

Whilst you are very much correct in raising the issue that the current lack of direction brings us closer, dangerously so, to a No-Deal (extreme and damaging Brexit), the view that there should be a People's Vote is only 'fundamentalist' per say as within the constraiints of reality there is simply no such thing as a sensible, compromise Brexit. Any Brexit will have the UK worse off, and so it makes no sense to 'compromse' or accept something that would be detrimental to the country and it's citizens.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Cracking just now on Sky News to see Faisal Islam call out a shouty placard waving wanker directly behind him. Probably under orders from above, but beautiful to see anyway and long overdue

 

[nicko31]

No deal has never looked more likely

Talk of People’s vote MPs putting down a motion to turn confirmatory referendum into the new default, as and when we are a day or two from the moment of a no-deal Brexit. It would have the merit of assessing whether undecided MPs are more fearful of a no-deal Brexit or a referendum...

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Oh they will vote, I wasn't disputing that, but they might not be voting for exactly what they want. No bid deal IMO.

But putting a 1 by your 1st choice, 2 by your 2nd choice, 3 by your 3rd choice, is not exactly complicated.

No, that doesn't work. Say for example the Leave options were May's Deal, and No Deal. A leaver might like May's deal, but failing that they'd rather remain than No Deal, because No Deal is so bad. Your option wouldn't give them that choice.

I take your point but on the other hand Brexiteers from the PM down have constantly said that Brexit means Brexit and leavers on here have repeatedly said that they don't care how we leave as long as we leave - the implication of all this being that Brexit is a discrete entity and any variation of it is no more than a sub-section.

People can if they wish argue to the contrary - that the variations of Leave are so different that they deserve being regarded as separate beasts. That is what you're really saying in the post above. I happen to agree with this point of view but it does reinforce the Remainer claim that the binary referendum was a nonsense - by grouping together all the barely-related distant cousins of Leave and measuring the total against the number that voted for the single variation of Remain the result was hugely misleading: Remain, it can be argued, is by far the most popular way forward, attracting more support in the country and potentially in parliament than anything else.

 

[Argartu]

Cracking just now on Sky News to see Faisal Islam call out a shouty placard waving wanker directly behind him. Probably under orders from above, but beautiful to see anyway and long overdue

Link for the curious - https://streamable.com/4eogh

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Link for the curious - https://streamable.com/4eogh

Top work

 

[Triggaaar]

I take your point but on the other hand Brexiteers from the PM down have constantly said that Brexit means Brexit

That'll be the PM that repeatedly said we'd be leaving on the 29th March. The MPs that repeatedly said they wouldn't back her deal, who eventually changed their minds. They are not representative of the population, or even parliament, which is why they haven't passed anything in the house of commons.

and leavers on here have repeatedly said that they don't care how we leave as long as we leave

That's a few people on here who want to leave whatever the cost, and again, not representative of the population as a whole.

the implication of all this being that Brexit is a discrete entity and any variation of it is no more than a sub-section.

Which we know is nonsense.

People can if they wish argue to the contrary - that the variations of Leave are so different that they deserve being regarded as separate beasts. That is what you're really saying in the post above.

There's not really a counter argument to that. Sure there are those that want Brexit of any flavour ahead of remain, which is of course fine, but to pretend that there are no voters who see things differently is obtuse. If some voters would choose in (for example) this order: May's deal, Remain, No Deal (and there are), then it is a fact that the variations of Leave are separate beasts.

I happen to agree with this point of view but it does reinforce the Remainer claim that the binary referendum was a nonsense - by grouping together all the barely-related distant cousins of Leave and measuring the total against the number that voted for the single variation of Remain the result was hugely misleading:

Given what's happened over the last couple of years, it's difficult to argue that the binary referendum we had was fit for purpose.

Remain, it can be argued, is by far the most popular way forward, attracting more support in the country and potentially in parliament than anything else.

Well that's a bit of a stretch. We don't really know without a suitable referendum.

 

[Yoda]

Voting numbers

[tweet]1112840273116229642[/tweet]

This just show's that the Tories do not even know what they want. They don't want May's deal, they don't want any of the above (including revoke A.50) and they also don't want No Deal. That leave no other options on the table.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Need to close down those mediocrities that only know what they don't want. Give 'em a small choice of Brexit options and make it first past the post. Guaranteed an outcome that way.

 

[Ernest]

Need to close down those mediocrities that only know what they don't want. Give 'em a small choice of Brexit options and make it first past the post. Guaranteed an outcome that way.

Just stick to revoke or go with no deal, sort out any waverers or posturers

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Indicative Votes back ON.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1113100857070047232?s=19

Can the zealots reach a compromise this time ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Indicative Votes back ON.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1113100857070047232?s=19

Can the zealots reach a compromise this time ?

It is saying it will be a cross party vote, but can we trust them or will it be whipped again?

 

[WATFORD zero]

What I would personally like to see happen is that the whole of parliament are given two options

No deal
or
Remain

Free vote, No whips, No abstentions, No more bollocks politicking.

That would certainly sort the wheat from the chaff

 

[vegster]

7 Hours in to May's make or break Cabinet meeting and a consensus HAS emerged !!!!………………….. They have decided what sandwich fillings are acceptable..

 

[ManOfSussex]

Government rumoured to be now tabling a motion tonight.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1113117450785128448?s=19

https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1113117631672922112?s=19