[Politics] Brexit

[Lever]

The same as most elections Remain still had an overwhelming advantage. Unfortunately far too many people on here are happy to ignore the numerous Remain poltician liars, hypocrites and support politicians lying to the public and reneging on promises as long as they get their way. Shameful



What is your other way 'forward' revoke?

You seem to be missing the point. If the referendum was flawed in this extreme way (which it certainly seems to have been) - on both sides, then surely it cannot be considered as a legitimate platform to proceed and so we should have a transparent, monitored, informed ratification. Otherwise we are building a future on a corrupt and muddled 3 year old referendum.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If Parliament can’t decide on anything, then it’s obvious they need to go back to the people. What other alternative is there?

 

[Lever]

A lot of shitty mood remainers on here tonight...........

What do you mean by that?

 

[beorhthelm]

If Parliament can’t decide on anything, then it’s obvious they need to go back to the people. What other alternative is there?

trouble is parliament cant decide they need to go back to the people.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

trouble is parliament cant decide they need to go back to the people.

If Theresa May and the cabinet decided upon this approach I’m pretty sure it would happen.

 

[nicko31]

If Parliament can’t decide on anything, then it’s obvious they need to go back to the people. What other alternative is there?

If May had any guts she would put her deal back one final time and say...

Either parliament backs the withdrawal agreement or we will put it back to the public for ratification. And if that can't be agreed we remain.

Just for once put the country first instead of her damned broken Tory party...

If there was a vote it would be toxic, but everything is toxic now anyway. No easy choices....

 

[hans kraay fan club]

What do you mean by that?

He means "there are a lot of 'remainers' on here tonight, in a bad mood. Haha lolz, etc"

Like lots of people of the Leave side, he's giving the impression that its all a bit of a game, and that 'winning it' is what is important, rather than the health, prosperity and security of the nation. The people NOT 'in a bad mood' over the current government debacle, simply fail to grasp the seriousness of the situation.

 

[WATFORD zero]

So first it was immigration and 'taking back control' of our borders. Then we found out that we hadn't bothered implementing any of the controls available to us for within the EU and Non EU immigration (which we do have absolute control over) was rising and that we needed the immigration of workers and taxpayers to support our ever ageing population - DOH

Then it was the economy. The ability to make trade deals and improve the economy. Except for the fact that to replace the trade deals we already had would take years and that trying to negotiate without being part of the worlds biggest trading bloc could be problematic and would certainly involve us kowtowing to the major Economies around the world. Add to that the fact that the EU were writing preferential terms on all their trading deals that they have in place before we even start negotiating - DOH

Thanks goodness that we still have parliamentary sovereignty as a good reason to continue plunging headlong into this shitstorm

Well who could have guessed ?

 

[ManOfSussex]

If Parliament can’t decide on anything, then it’s obvious they need to go back to the people. What other alternative is there?

I'm very intrigued by the Bexhill and Battle MP Hew Merriman's public pivoting to supporting the Kyle/Wilson amendment advocating the confirmatory vote and recommending Tory colleagues now support this as it's the only way out of the mess - He's The Chancellor's PPS.

[tweet]1112838890644168704[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Tories are the problem. They want No Deal and are trying to force it through by doing nothing.

[tweet]1112830203020132356[/tweet]

 

[vegster]

If May had any guts she would put her deal back one final time and say...

Either parliament backs the withdrawal agreement or we will put it back to the public for ratification. And if that can't be agreed we remain.

Just for once put the country first instead of her damned broken Tory party...

If there was a vote it would be toxic, but everything is toxic now anyway. No easy choices....

It did not help that the Cabinet were ordered to abstain in all the indicative votes last night, allowing them their choice might just have got one of the motions over the line.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

If Parliament can’t decide on anything, then it’s obvious they need to go back to the people. What other alternative is there?

How does that achieve anything but remain. If the leave vote wins we are back where we were. We may as well just drop article 50
And be done with it

 

[nicko31]

So first it was immigration and 'taking back control' of our borders. Then we found out that we hadn't bothered implementing any of the controls available to us for within the EU and Non EU immigration (which we do have absolute control over) was rising and that we needed the immigration of workers and taxpayers to support our ever ageing population - DOH

Then it was the economy. The ability to make trade deals and improve the economy. Except for the fact that to replace the trade deals we already had would take years and that trying to negotiate without being part of the worlds biggest trading bloc could be problematic and would certainly involve us kowtowing to the major Economies around the world. Add to that the fact that the EU were writing preferential terms on all their trading deals that they have in place before we even start negotiating - DOH

Thanks goodness that we still have parliamentary sovereignty as a good reason to continue plunging headlong into this shitstorm

Well who could have guessed ?

View attachment 106953

I'm afraid cognitive dissonance continues amongst leavers, meanwhile Brexit is costing £5-600m/week and still we carry on.

 

[seagulls4ever]

The Tories are the problem. They want No Deal and are trying to force it through by doing nothing.

[tweet]1112830203020132356[/tweet]

The same could be said for TIG, Greens (CL) and some of the Lib Dems (and Tories + Labour) - want a second referendum and trying to force it through by voting against Common Market 2.0/Norway+ and Customs Union.

 

[Gwylan]

How does that achieve anything but remain.

Not if Remain was not an option on a referendum: we've already decided that. We could have a second referendum with No Deal, a custom's union, Common Market 2.0 and May's deal as options - that would take it out of the hands of parliament.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The fact that Cabinet members seem to be happy with No Deal (or are pretending to be, either way) is a ****ing disgrace, as is the fact that Labour did not whip for the SNP amendment last night.

Edit: Sorry to link to he Daily Hate but...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6875015/Top-mandarins-bombshell-No-Deal-Brexit-warning.html



No Deal Cabinet members need to be faced the **** down today.

It's ironic that the Daily Fail is printing this, after all their propaganda and the 'enemies of the people' labelling of judges.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not if Remain was not an option on a referendum: we've already decided that. We could have a second referendum with No Deal, a custom's union, Common Market 2.0 and May's deal as options - that would take it out of the hands of parliament.

Some MPs have been having tutorials this week learning about the Customs Union. If they don't know, then how on earth will the general public be able to decide? It only covers goods, not services and service industries in this country also need trade deals.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The same could be said for TIG, Greens (CL) and some of the Lib Dems (and Tories + Labour) - want a second referendum and trying to force it through by voting against Common Market 2.0/Norway+ and Customs Union.

No, it couldn't. They don't have the numbers.


Here's an example of Tory lies.

[tweet]1113030016982507521[/tweet]

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

One of the common arguments I hear on a regular basis is that leavers did not know what they were voting for. The same could be said for those who voted remain. Did they know what they were really voting for?

The accepted direction of travel of the EU is ever closer political union. The Lisbon treaty will inevitably have to be changed by further treaty in order to progress this ever closer union and to tighten the rules of membership. If the UK remains then we will be expected to become full members of the EU as it moves towards full convergence by 2025. The U.K. can therefore expect to have to accept some or all of the following within the next two to ten years.


1) Losing its rebate.
2) Joining Schengen.
3) Joining the euro.
4) Uniform corporate and personal taxation.
5) Uniform regulation of financial services.
6) EU jurisprudence.
7) Budgetary supervision by an EU treasury.
8) Formalised EU armed forces, operational and procurement structures.
9) EU foreign, defence and security policies taking precedence over national forces and policies.
10) Mandatory migrant quotas.
11) Removal of Article 50.
12) Other transfers of competencies from member states to the EU, i.e. further losses of sovereignty.

I get the impression that many remain voters voted for the status quo. That is not possible if you consider the direction the EU is traveling. If you voted remain and accept these as possible outcomes and accept that the EU represents technocratic supra-nationalism, then I have no problem with that whatsoever. Personally I prefer sovereign national democracy but each to their own.

I personally voted remain as a supporter of the European Project, and would accept any or all of that. I would do that on the basis that we would have been an equal part of any decision made, and not being dictated to by "bureaucrats from Brussels", which is one of the great misconceptions about the EU. It is the elected representatives who make the decisions, which the bureaucrats then implement, much like our own civil service.

And if we were staying in Europe and prepared to take it seriously, we would be a leading player.

Like you though, Chief Wiggum, I am prepared to accept that many others will not be as comfortable with all the sort of stuff that I support. Fair enough, but at least we should be able to keep it civilised.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nick Boles is blaming his own party for refusing to compromise.

[tweet]1113020792210710534[/tweet]