[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

If someone wants to get out of your house and you know they’re locked in...you could help them find the key. No rule says you have to. But by not doing so, you are by default, not helping. Or making it difficult.

? TM to EU, you need us more than we need you, we will be leaving the single market and the customs union, and anything that requires the ECJ to have authority, EU say ok, but you have a Treaty with our member Ireland, and that means there should be no customs border in Ireland, and citizens on both sides of the open border should have equal rights, so you will have to have customs checks between the mainland and the N.I. TM says, no way EU, what we want is a customs union with you, but only a loose one so we can do other deals. EU says, not sure how that would work but we will give it a go in the next stage, but if that doesn't work out, what then? TM says, well, how about we promise to stay in the customs union till we get that sorted, and N.I. stays in the single market sort of. EU says, not sure, sounds like you are getting a bit of good single market access without the responsibilities. TM says, but it won't be forever,EU says ok then, so long as it's only temporary. T.M. comes back and asks Parliament what they think, and they tell her to **** off, should have asked us first before drawing those bloody red lines, or this temporary thing you've asked for that could last forever, she goes back and asks, can we leave this temporary solution anytime we like, and they say, well no, not without putting something else there to make sure YOUR agreement with Ireland holds. TM says, ok I will ask again, Parliament says, we told you to **** off with this last time, whats new? TM, nothing. Parliament, well **** off again then. TM. OK, message understood, you want me to **** off, I will, but only if you say yes to my deal. Parliament is considering how firmly it tells her to **** off again at the moment. How is the EU the difficult one?

 

[albion68]

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I'm sure you played your part convincing them of the error of their ways. On the plus side, both my parents have switched the other way... they have this strange old fashioned notion of always stopping and thinking before throwing themselves off a cliff

When you have a GE whoever wins Lab or Con they take over straight away ,but with the BREXIT Referendum there is too much time for two/thirds Remain MP`s to enact their devious plots to out manoeuvre the Leave MP`s . They just want to get to do you want to stay in the EU ?. They have done a good job even though they agreed to proceed with BREXIT.

 

[birthofanorange]

/

When you have a GE whoever wins Lab or Con they take over straight away ,but with the BREXIT Referendum there is too much time for two/thirds Remain MP`s to enact their devious plots to out manoeuvre the Leave MP`s . They just want to get to do you want to stay in the EU ?. They have done a good job even though they agreed to proceed with BREXIT.

You mean too much time to realise what it actually entails? Too much time to realise that it may have been an ill-thought decision? Thank goodness it wasn't enacted immediately - imagine the (even more) unholy mess we'd be in, now?

 

[Sorrel]

The DUP will vote against. There'll still be 30-50 Tories, mostly ERG/some remainers too. PD removal aside, I don't see what's changed from last night when it was dead to alter the numbers. It's just one last throw of the dice with the date of May 22nd added, all done on what should have been Brexit day in the hope Brexit MP's blink.

Yep - it won't pass. There is no way that Labour will allow their MPs to vote for (enable, as they would put it) a Tory Brexit. That way it looks like a Conservative success. That is why we have an impasse. Neither side want to allow the other to gain any credit for it working and neither side want to be blamed for it not working. There isn't a majority.

The problem is that this is most likely to lead to two elections - the European parliament one and a UK parliamentary one - the second of which few people want as it will undoubtedly not lead to a different situation (but probably to a minority Labour government fighting with and being propped up by the Liberals, the IG and of course those perennial wreckers - the SNP).

 

[Baldseagull]

According to the research I have seen the change in the opinion polls has mainly been due to people who couldn't decide and be bothered to vote last time saying they would now mainly vote remain next time (would they bother to vote?) and demographics (old voters dying off), very few have changed their minds.

Some of those were apathetic people, but I know a few who had no idea what to believe and decided not to vote was better than casting a guess. They have the knowledge they needed to make a decision now.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm sure you played your part convincing them of the error of their ways. On the plus side, both my parents have switched the other way... they have this strange old fashioned notion of always stopping and thinking before throwing themselves off a cliff

I wouldn't dare! .... didn't they believe you when you explained there wasn't going to be a cliff edge?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I posted a link in my previous posts to the ones you quoted.

According to the research I have seen the change in the opinion polls has mainly been due to people who couldn't decide and be bothered to vote last time saying they would now mainly vote remain next time (would they bother to vote?) and demographics (old voters dying off), very few have changed their minds.

But a clear majority don't want a referendum if remain is an option according to polls while many claim people have changed their minds about staying/leaving by a lesser extent according to polls, so we should have a referendum with remain as an option. The public had a democratic say in the 2016 referendum and the 2017 General Election how many times would you like to ask them before you think their democratic choice should be enacted?

That's an interesting interpretation of this article https://ukandeu.ac.uk/campaigners-claim-the-people-want-a-second-referendum-but-thats-not-what-the-polls-say/ that you posted

I couldn't find either of your two claims in it

 

[Is it PotG?]

Apparently Millwall have discovered some ace spot kickers in their youth squad, and wouldn't mind having another bash at the quarter-final decider from 12 yards.

 

[neilbard]

 

[WATFORD zero]

I wouldn't dare! .... didn't they believe you when you explained there wasn't going to be a cliff edge?

I believe it was Meg who told you from the very beginning that 'no deal' wouldn't happen and my parents don't go in for all that Mystic stuff

 

[albion68]

The final poll was by YouGov who gave a 4% lead to Remain, with Populus the day before giving a 10% lead to Remain.

Thanks Weststander i thought this was the case .

 

[Triggaaar]

View attachment 106718

Why are they carrying on, the guy in the yellow hit it into the net.

 

[Weststander]

Yep - it won't pass. There is no way that Labour will allow their MPs to vote for (enable, as they would put it) a Tory Brexit. That way it looks like a Conservative success. That is why we have an impasse. Neither side want to allow the other to gain any credit for it working and neither side want to be blamed for it not working. There isn't a majority.

The problem is that this is most likely to lead to two elections - the European parliament one and a UK parliamentary one - the second of which few people want as it will undoubtedly not lead to a different situation (but probably to a minority Labour government fighting with and being propped up by the Liberals, the IG and of course those perennial wreckers - the SNP).

The SNP will be wreckers. Some always anti Tory zealots perceive every other party as a “progressive alliance”, but the SNP did all they could to screw the Labour Party in the Blair/Brown era, and do that to this day in Scotland. All very deliberate, as they need to grind the only real threat to them in the central belt of Scotland into the ground. Easy to love them now in the Commons as they oppose Brexit, but they would be a constant thorn in a Corbyn government’s side on normal business.

 

[neilbard]

Why are they carrying on, the guy in the yellow hit it into the net.

Exactly why are they carrying on....#brexit

 

[Baldseagull]

The main reason remainers want another referendum ... is to have remain as an option/have a second go.

That is true, call it a free hit for remainers, nothing to lose. But I think the main reason leavers don't want one is that remainers do. Or is it that if asked again, you really would be responsible for the crap we are going to get, whereas at the moment, its TM's fault for screwing it up?

 

[LlcoolJ]

Yep - it won't pass. There is no way that Labour will allow their MPs to vote for (enable, as they would put it) a Tory Brexit. That way it looks like a Conservative success. That is why we have an impasse. Neither side want to allow the other to gain any credit for it working and neither side want to be blamed for it not working. There isn't a majority.

The problem is that this is most likely to lead to two elections - the European parliament one and a UK parliamentary one - the second of which few people want as it will undoubtedly not lead to a different situation (but probably to a minority Labour government fighting with and being propped up by the Liberals, the IG and of course those perennial wreckers - the SNP).

That seems the most likely outcome at the moment.

It seems to have been completely ignored on this thread that Starmer said earlier that Labour will be voting against. I only know this because I heard it with my ears (unlike a lot of the hearsay and bluster on this thread).

DUP won't budge, as they haven't all along. Why should they when nothing has changed re NI?

JRM, well he's already proved himself to be the worst of the worst duplicitous liars with his flip flopping (Boris aside of course). But he already stated that he'd only back May's bill if the DUP were on board. So he either votes against or destroys his credibility even further. Actually I love how the scumbag has backed himself into a corner, but that's an aside.

I can't see how May can win.

 

[Weststander]

Thanks Weststander i thought this was the case .

I was absolutely stunned at about 11.30pm on the day, when it emerged Leave were going to win.

I might have this wrong, but Corbyn was very optimistic at 10.01pm, crestfallen by 10.45pm and smug by midnight.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Exactly why are they carrying on....#brexit

Because it's a complete waste of time and effort ?

 

[Baldseagull]

I'm sure you played your part convincing them of the error of their ways. On the plus side, both my parents have switched the other way... they have this strange old fashioned notion of always respecting democratic results.

Free and Fair Elections?

 

[Eeyore]

I will go for rank outsider Rory Stewart. Seems a sensible chap plus anyone who can win the award for best parliamentary speech of 2015 by talking about Hedgehogs must have something about him

Rory Stewart is too good for parliament- although he is the only Tory I would vote for. Folk are probably unaware of how highly he is regarded in diplomatic and academic circles around the world. He's Shakespeare, Attenborough and Obama rolled into one.

They were even going to make a film about him with Brad Pitt in the lead role (Edit: Brad Pitt bought the rights but wasn't casting himself). Not sure about if its gone ahead.

I'd recommend his book 'The Places in Between'. He did a solo walk across Afghanistan in 2002.

It's hard to believe that he and Johnson, both Etonians, are in the same party. Johnson looks even more of a fool when they stand together.

We don't make Brits like him anymore.