[Politics] Brexit

[Bold Seagull]

All very bright men and all Nobels thoroughly deserved for excellent work and insights. And yet none of them really experts in the precise details of the subject under discussion. We are rather here akin to discussing how to treat cancer with some of the world’s best orthopedists, heart surgeons and urologists rather than with an oncologist.

At least the Remain side are able to find experts with medical training!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Countries usually don’t knowingly commit economic suicide, but in Britain, millions seem ready to give it a try. On June 23, the United Kingdom will vote to decide whether to quit the European Union, the 28-nation economic bloc with a population of 508 million and a gross domestic product of almost $17 trillion. Let’s not be coy: Leaving the E.U. would be an act of national insanity.

BRITAIN FLIRTS WITH ECONOMIC INSANITY - Washington Post

 

[GT49er]

JC would you agree that the list of following recipients of the Nobel prize in economics are a bunch of clueless chancers who couldn't forecast rain in the Amazon?


Economic issues are central to the UK referendum debate. We believe that the UK would be better off economically inside the EU. British firms and workers need full access to the single market. In addition, Brexit would create major uncertainty about Britain’s alternative future trading arrangements, both with the rest of Europe and with important markets like the USA, Canada and China. And these effects, though one-off, would persist for many years. Thus the economic arguments are clearly in favour of remaining in the EU.

George Akerlof
Kenneth Arrow
Angus Deaton
Peter Diamond
James Heckman
Eric Maskin
James Mirrlees
Christopher Pissarides
Robert Solow
Jean Tirole
Winners of the Nobel prize in economics

Still nothing but economics, economics and more economics then.

 

[Two Professors]

Still don't see any provision for an EU army, nor any actual evidence Turkey is going to join the EU in the next 300 years.

None so blind...........

 

[Two Professors]

JC would you agree that the list of following recipients of the Nobel prize in economics are a bunch of clueless chancers who couldn't forecast rain in the Amazon?


Economic issues are central to the UK referendum debate. We believe that the UK would be better off economically inside the EU. British firms and workers need full access to the single market. In addition, Brexit would create major uncertainty about Britain’s alternative future trading arrangements, both with the rest of Europe and with important markets like the USA, Canada and China. And these effects, though one-off, would persist for many years. Thus the economic arguments are clearly in favour of remaining in the EU.

George Akerlof
Kenneth Arrow
Angus Deaton
Peter Diamond
James Heckman
Eric Maskin
James Mirrlees
Christopher Pissarides
Robert Solow
Jean Tirole
Winners of the Nobel prize in economics

WHOOOOOOOO?
Bet none of them can tie their own laces!

 

[kevo]

Has anybody seen a strong rationale for Remain that is NOT driven solely by economics? I might have missed it.

It's pretty important though, isn't it? I'm convinced if Brexit wins we will head into a massive economic recession - and not only because of how much the change itself will cost every area of the economy. Don't forget that the EU was established because of the need for a common market. The costs for any businesses who currently export to the rest of Europe will unquestionably increase, which can only mean one thing - loads of companies going bust and thousands of people losing their jobs. It's insanity that people are prepared to risk this happening. We all know the EU isn't perfect, but reform from within is surely the only sensible option.

 

[Two Professors]

See that clod Scudamore rattling on about how open the Prem is so they support Remain.Didn't he want to turn them into a closed shop for the 'Big' teams a couple of months ago?

 

[heathgate]

The Free Movement regime is nothing but a free market in cut-price labour for big business and bad employers. There's a reason Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and the other 'Too Big To Fail' multi-nationals have all given hundreds of thousands of pounds to the In campaign. No-one who cares about pay and conditions for working people should even consider a Remain vote.

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[Steve in Japan]

It's pretty important though, isn't it? I'm convinced if Brexit wins we will head into a massive economic recession - and not only because of how much the change itself will cost every area of the economy. Don't forget that the EU was established because of the need for a common market. The costs for any businesses who currently export to the rest of Europe will unquestionably increase, which can only mean one thing - loads of companies going bust and thousands of people losing their jobs. It's insanity that people are prepared to risk this happening. We all know the EU isn't perfect, but reform from within is surely the only sensible option.

Unquestionably, it's very important.

But I am struck by the lack of passion that exists generally in favour of the EU, as an organisation and as a political union. And how few people are able to speak convincingly in its favour. Without resorting to telling us how much worse off we'll be economically.

You speak of reform as many do, but the direction in which the EU is travelling is very clear and very public. Just google The Five Presidents Report or use the link below, which details the public plan for "Completing Europe's Economic and Monetary Union". And then ask yourself what reform may be offered to a UK which has elected to remain in (but not really in) the EU.


https://ec.europa.eu/priorities/sites/beta-political/files/5-presidents-report_en.pdf

 

[Bold Seagull]

The Free Movement regime is nothing but a free market in cut-price labour for big business and bad employers. There's a reason Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and the other 'Too Big To Fail' multi-nationals have all given hundreds of thousands of pounds to the In campaign. No-one who cares about pay and conditions for working people should even consider a Remain vote.

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It's about time the Leave campaign came clean and admitted that if we exit, we'll still be in the EEA. They haven't because they think the illusion of a change in immigration will win votes, however as Christopher Brooker outlined in the Telegraph yesterday, that tactic has been at the expense of being able to propose a practical exit plan and continued trading with the single market. Of course this would involve admitting EU freedom of movement would also stay, even if we leave.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm not arguing an economic case for Brexit but don't believe there are only the predicted negative economic consequences if we leave the EU.

Having the freedom to strike free trade deals with whoever we choose, when we choose, purely in our national interest is one positive.

if EU is so great why have Switzerland just officially withdrawn their application to join?
They seem to believe they are better off not being a full member,i havnt seen the swiss economy collapse since they announced this.
The swiss are also not far away from implementing stopping freedom of movement and going onto quotas

Expedience most likely. The UK is not seriously committed to Turkey joining. Angela Merkel even made it clear that it's not on the agenda.

Cameron confirmed on sunday he thought Turkey joining was 30 years away,which is in line with his stance on backing Turkey joining and the financial commitment this country is contributing for their pre-accession assistance.
Angela merkel wont be around when your children and grand children will witness turkey joining,you need to think much longer term on the consequences of your vote than the political lifetime of frau merkel

Hold your horses. I received a piece of 'official' material about the referendum on here, on a day when campaigning was supposed to be suspended. When I read it I found it was a disgraceful and misleading pack of lies. A poster asked me to scan it and upload. I am sorry that I don't have to hand any equally mendacious crap from the other camp to scan and post, but if you have some do feel free to post it.

you did say the leaflet said Iraq and Syria are 'set to join the EU'.
which was a big porky on your part

 

[Albumen]

More beef on Johnson.

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/744116453293629440/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[looney]

Still don't see any provision for an EU army, nor any actual evidence Turkey is going to join the EU in the next 300 years.

Why is it my problem you are so ill informed? I sat down years ago and read the maastrict treaty were it states the intent t set up 2 EU armies, one for internal security and the other for external.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ope-European-army-merging-German-Dutch-forces

 

[looney]

Wow, linking to Russia Today loonster, always a credible source.

Well you wont find it in the guardian, or bbc. There are plenty of links in that linked search. It is I would say common knowledge to those who live outside of a political bubble.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Why is it my problem you are so ill informed? I sat down years ago and read the maastrict treaty were it states the intent t set up 2 EU armies, one for internal security and the other for external.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ope-European-army-merging-German-Dutch-forces

Ha ha Project Fear.

Oh hang on, is that not the Remain!? #confused

 

[looney]

Ha ha Project Fear.

Oh hang on, is that not the Remain!? #confused

Why is it fear mongering? If the eU is to be one country its going to have a unified military clout as well as a national anthem.The problem is isssues like what if the Falklands are invaded again? Its another reason we dont belong not that the EU will invade us.

 

[Albumen]

Why is it fear mongering? If the eU is to be one country its going to have a unified military clout as well as a national anthem.The problem is isssues like what if the Falklands are invaded again? Its another reason we dont belong not that the EU will invade us.

I'll bite. Why won't it? If the majority vote for leave, surely the majority are dead against the EU. With Gove, Johnson and Farage's rhetoric, them as leaders of the country will try and fight the EU until the end. To what end? I guess it depends how much you believe the Express maybe?

 

[drew]

if EU is so great why have Switzerland just officially withdrawn their application to join?
They seem to believe they are better off not being a full member,i havnt seen the swiss economy collapse since they announced this.
The swiss are also not far away from implementing stopping freedom of movement and going onto quotas

As they haven't been actively negotiating accession since 1992, it's hardly surprising there has been no effect on their economy!

 

[carlzeiss]

View attachment 75899

Then why are we wasting money we supposedly havn't got,on trying to get Turkey in?

Good question .


[yt]JLTTjWLyBhY[/YT]

 

[Bold Seagull]

Norway doesn't paint a happy picture for Brexit

So, Norway, cited by Leave as an example of not being in the EU, as part of their agreement to join the EEA, has not only free movement, but also is obliged to be part of Europe’s passport-free Schengen travel zone! And they have no say about matters because they are outside the EU.

What a great plan.