[Politics] Brexit

[The Clamp]

I won’t say what My Grandad would’ve made of your ilk.





On our way.

If he was as much of a **** as you, who cares what he would have thought.

 

[nicko31]

This debate about who is to blame is quite simple

Here are the people responsible

View attachment 105057

Together with a large number of, at best, naive people who believed that voting to leave would resolve each and every issue that they individually had in their heads at the time.

From the day after the referendum there were only three options

1. Softest of soft Brexits (if we wanted to keep a lot of EU benefits and not create a border in Ireland/NI)
2. 'No deal' (Economic suicide and I said at the time, 2 years would not long enough to implement - never going to happen)
3. Withdraw/Delay Article 50 for a GE or referendum.


Here's a post from over a year and a half ago




And to quote a certain PM 'Nothing has changed'. Where we now are can hardly have come as a surprise to anyone

May knows herself the lies of Brexit could never be delivered. She's on the record from June 2016 on the Irish Border...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-36587809

Hence we now have option 4 - her deal. It is just a can kicking exercise and achieves very little and kicks all the issues into the long grass.

 

[lawros left foot]

But what could Corbyn have done? He could have opposed Brexit, which would have alienated a lot of Labour support in the north and caused deep splits in the party. But if he had, it wouldn't make the slightest difference to situation because he doesn't have a majority.

He could have proposed a second referendum which may have stopped his MPs leaving but wouldn't have made the slightest difference to the situation because he doesn't have a majority.

Or he could have supported May's deal, which would have permanently split his party and saved parliamentary time, but would have tied him to Brexit so, if it goes horribly wrong, he'd share the blame (and wouldn't get the praise if it turned out to be a success).

Corbyn has done a lot wrong since becoming leader but I don't think the way he handled Brexit was one of them. I'm not sure what else he could have done

This

 

[WATFORD zero]

May knows herself the lies of Brexit could never be delivered. She's on the record from June 2016 on the Irish Border...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-36587809

Hence we now have option 4 - her deal. It is just a can kicking exercise and achieves very little and kicks all the issues into the long grass.

But her option is still option 1 as we stay in the customs union (but cunningly rename it 'the backstop')

Its almost as if she thinks a large part of the electorate are so gullible, they'll fall for anything

 

[Baker lite]

If he was as much of a **** as you, who cares what he would have thought.

Classy.




On our way.

 

[The Clamp]

Classy.




On our way.

You bought him into it. Anyway, it's a nice sunny day and I'm gonna head out and get a spot of brunch. Theres a lovley cafe with a secluded outdoor dining area near me where they do a pitta filled with grilled haloumi, grilled peppers and veg, tatsiki, olives and coleslaw. Stick a nice blood orange San Pelegrino in a glass with ice and bingo! Have a nice day.

 

[A1X]

Unless of course if the vote had been 52% stay 48% leave.

Well yon Nigel had plenty to say on that particular subject back in the day

 

[lawros left foot]

and we're back to name calling!

And it was going so well.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

I read an article yesterday that detailed how in yougov polling, "Is leaving the EU a bad idea?" has returned a Yes answer for the last 18 straight months, with the latest poll returning the highest majority yet (9 points).

We all know 'the people' no longer want to leave, by a bigger majority than they ever voted otherwise. The politicians know it. The media know it. It is all just a ridiculous, hellish charade.

Seriously, what the actual ****?

This. All of the blustering "debate" is about party politics and personal agendas. For The Maybot to bleat on about delivering the will of the people is just so stupid as to be beneath contempt.

Hopefully things have taken some more positive turns during the past few days and a very soft, damage limited, exit and no exit at all are now by far the most likely outcomes.

 

[neilbard]

May knows herself the lies of Brexit could never be delivered. She's on the record from June 2016 on the Irish Border...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-36587809

Hence we now have option 4 - her deal. It is just a can kicking exercise and achieves very little and kicks all the issues into the long grass.

How many buzz words can we get in one sentence..

 

[WATFORD zero]

If he was as much of a **** as you, who cares what he would have thought.

Are you suggesting ****ishness may be genetic, like intelligence

 

[Stat Brother]

The Labour Party could do little in reality to stop it. The traditional Labour voters want one thing, in the main, and the party membership want the opposite, and whatever we may wish it'll was different, it’s not. Corbyn has had to hold a divided party together, he’s still very popular with the membership, but, disliked and distrusted by a fair few Labour MPs, so he must walk a fine line between the two.
It must also be remembered he has survived two attempts to oust him from the leadership, by the light blue Labour MPs, no mean feat,. To pour equal blame on Labour for this abortion is laughable, and makes me wonder if Corbyn could have followed any course that could have appeased his more rabid critics.

His main task is to keep a divided party together, and form as coherent opposition as possible, and this he has done, to a certain extent.

Ok so I'll backtrack from almost equally to blame, as obviously the Labour Party is in no why responsible for starting the madness beginning as a Public School squabble.

But unlike many here I do firmly believe that one way or the other the country wouldn't be where it is now, 750 hours from 'no deal' with almost hourly revelation of stuff we've forgotten to pack, if the Labour Party wasn't trying (and failing) to stop fighting among themselves.

 

[WATFORD zero]

How many buzz words can we get in one sentence..

Well we could stop can kicking into the long grass immediately, if only anyone from Government down could come up with a plausible solution to the Ireland/NI border issue ?

So here's your chance, what do you think we should do ?

 

[neilbard]

Well we could stop can kicking into the long grass immediately, if only anyone from Government down could come up with a plausible solution to the Ireland/NI border issue ?

So here's your chance, what do you think we should do ?

Remain.

 

[nicko31]

But her option is still option 1 as we stay in the customs union (but cunningly rename it 'the backstop')

Its almost as if she thinks a large part of the electorate are so gullible, they'll fall for anything

Brexiteers still bang on about leaving the CU but offering nothing

And we're still waiting for someone on here to come up with a single large trade opportunity that exists in leaving the custom union that will exceed what we already have.

Come on, someone please offer something better than this...

 

[cjd]

Have the French government offered you a way to apply for settled status, like our government have done for EU nationals here?. My mum got settled status last month, which means she can still access all the services, after 50+ years.

As you can imagine, the rumour mill is working overtime here (france) and no doubt through the rest of Europe.

What is cast iron certainty is that NOTHING is settled until we either leave or stay in . The Settled status, Carte Sejour, Residency Permits etc etc etc will only be valid IF reciprocal arrangements are agreed. So far......with just a few days left, nothing has been agreed permanently. It really is quite a shocking state of affairs for people like myself. Like most 'oldies' we're keeping a stiff upper lip, but it gets harder every day. It isn't fun not knowing where you're going to live in the future....how we're going to pay for health care....what will happen to our pets.

The same applies to all those unfortunate enough to work in industries reliant on trade deals with Europe.

Uncertainty , and the mind games being played by so many of the senior members of both the Conservative and Labour Parties has destroyed any passions and beliefs I previously held for politics.

I thank you for your concern and input.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

As you can imagine, the rumour mill is working overtime here (france) and no doubt through the rest of Europe.

What is cast iron certainty is that NOTHING is settled until we either leave or stay in . The Settled status, Carte Sejour, Residency Permits etc etc etc will only be valid IF reciprocal arrangements are agreed. So far......with just a few days left, nothing has been agreed permanently. It really is quite a shocking state of affairs for people like myself. Like most 'oldies' we're keeping a stiff upper lip, but it gets harder every day. It isn't fun not knowing where you're going to live in the future....how we're going to pay for health care....what will happen to our pets.

The same applies to all those unfortunate enough to work in industries reliant on trade deals with Europe.

Uncertainty , and the mind games being played by so many of the senior members of both the Conservative and Labour Parties has destroyed any passions and beliefs I previously held for politics.

I thank you for your concern and input.

I would think as we have provided EU nationals here with settled status, then the reciprocal agreement should already be in place?

 

[nicko31]

As you can imagine, the rumour mill is working overtime here (france) and no doubt through the rest of Europe.

What is cast iron certainty is that NOTHING is settled until we either leave or stay in . The Settled status, Carte Sejour, Residency Permits etc etc etc will only be valid IF reciprocal arrangements are agreed. So far......with just a few days left, nothing has been agreed permanently. It really is quite a shocking state of affairs for people like myself. Like most 'oldies' we're keeping a stiff upper lip, but it gets harder every day. It isn't fun not knowing where you're going to live in the future....how we're going to pay for health care....what will happen to our pets.

The same applies to all those unfortunate enough to work in industries reliant on trade deals with Europe.

Uncertainty , and the mind games being played by so many of the senior members of both the Conservative and Labour Parties has destroyed any passions and beliefs I previously held for politics.

I thank you for your concern and input.

I have friends in France that went for French nationality because they were worried about Le Pen getting in (this was pre-Brexit). In the end they are glad they got it because of what happened, but unless you are fluent French forget it and it took them almost 3 years after 10 years + in the country

I'm sorry for your stress, but you are very low on the UK governments priorities. They just don't care

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I have friends in France that went for French nationality because they were worried about Le Pen getting in (this was pre-Brexit). In the end they are glad they got it because of what happened, but unless you are fluent French forget it and it took them almost 3 years after 10 years + in the country

I'm sorry for your stress, but you are very low on the UK governments priorities. They just don't care

I think this has more to do with the French government than our own here, as we have already offered French people living here settled status. They just need to offer it back to Brits living in France. Each country in the EU will be different. I believe HT said the German government had already sorted some sort of settled status for Brits in Germany.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

As I have stated on numerous occasions the way HMG has prepared for Brexit and handled the negotiations has been inept. Some unnecessary Job losses have probably occurred due to their ineptitude but some were inevitable, see relocating EU institutions and negotiations usually going down to the wire increasing uncertainty. These job loss numbers are unquantifiable (which is why you don't answer my question) but it's fair to say the overall job market has remained remarkably resilient, positive and confounded the 'experts' predicting employment and economic disaster.

There is clearly a link ... using the fear of immigrants turning up on mass in the UK using dubious reasoning. But even if there was more evidence for one than the other you still seek to defend using fear of immigrants as a campaign tactic. Obviously, you never raised a peep when the Remain campaign did it but doubling down trying to justify that now suggests your outrage is rather selective.

You're not the best person to ask what you believe?

Can you provide a direct quote for your repeated claim that the director of Vote Leave said...'the bus claim was the most effective lie' ?

If you feel there's an equivalence between, on the one hand, Cameron suggesting that French officials might remove a concession that allows prospective immigrants to be interviewed by British border staff at the French end of the channel tunnel rather than the British one with, on the other, the relentless long term drone of anti-immigrant rhetoric and stone-cold lies from Leave campaigners then I guess I'm out of this conversation. I'll leave others to judge your even-handedness.

I try to answer questions put to me though. I can't at the moment find a relevant quote from Cummins although I have seen it mentioned often enough. I appreciate that this might set you off on another furious spate of veloxing but I have never come across a sentient being yet who says that the bus message wasn't effectively a lie - the important part of Cummins' comment on the subject of the bus side is that the message was essential to the Leave victory. You claim that it is patronising to suggest such a thing. The director of Vote Leave has his own view, comprehensively put in a piece in the Spectator in January 2017. It's fenced I'm afraid and I really don't want to take out another sub. Sorry.