[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

I'll have to find a way to watch it. It does seem fascinating and I would be surprised if I didn't agree with much of the assessments you made by watching it (although I am sure it is open to a little more interpretation than you let on).

However, I'm not sure that comparing the Eurozone/Greek bailout crisis to Brexit is that appropriate. The former was about self preservation while the latter is more about protection, no? Does the Greek crisis really prove that the EU will budge when it comes to Brexit?

I'm happy to be wrong about this, it's not my area of expertise.

The first episode is about Brexit ..... the EU make some 'interesting' comments. Do watch if you can, it's very enlightening.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sometimes you sound like a broken record. You fail to mention the Greeks returned an anti-EU PM to power for a second time and also rejected a bailout via referendum. The referendum you mention was the second one and only after the anti-EU government had been backed into a corner. Watch the documentary and see how vindictive and and nasty the EU are ( oh and how not only did they break their own rules to allow in to the Eurozone but then broke them again TWICE to save their Euro project by providing bailouts which the rules didn't allow for ).

I haven't watched last night's episode yet, but I do listen to friends who live in Athens.
Yes, I mentioned the second referendum when the Greeks finally realised that there was only one way to get back on track. Their economy was a complete disaster.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Nissan this, Nissan that, they make it look like they are the only manufacturing company we have in this country, ridiculous.

Indeed despite 0 job losses but because it was a leave voting area the remoaners have been all over it meanwhile in another leave voting area ..

Oldham manufacturer opens new £3million production line

https://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/...ufacturer-opens-new-£3million-production-line

More jobs, good news story .. but naff all press coverage.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I haven't watched last night's episode yet, but I do listen to friends who live in Athens.
Yes, I mentioned the second referendum when the Greeks finally realised that there was only one way to get back on track. Their economy was a complete disaster.

Then I'm sure they'll have told you that 62% of Greeks REJECTED the bailout deal in the first referendum !

I'm sure that they were also very happy for the EU to effectively force an elected PM from power and for them to do the same in Italy. All for Merkel's ego and the EU project.

 

[The Clamp]

Nissan this, Nissan that, they make it look like they are the only manufacturing company we have in this country, ridiculous.

You do realise that there are repercussions to such an action? Loss of confidence in UK manufacturing leads to a fall in the pound leads to rising cost leads to you having less money on your pocket. Oh sorry I forgot, you know all about this but you think it's worth it. It's not.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Greece wasis in the euro, and so it was a currency issue. It is not the same as Brexit, as we still have sterling.

I've got a handle on both those points, but thanks for spelling it out for me.

 

[The Clamp]

Indeed despite 0 job losses but because it was a leave voting area the remoaners have been all over it meanwhile in another leave voting area ..

Oldham manufacturer opens new £3million production line

https://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/...ufacturer-opens-new-£3million-production-line

More jobs, good news story .. but naff all press coverage.

You have linked to press coverage. Ha!
They have invested £3 million in a second production line in an existing factory to make 15,000 more plastic wrapped doors a month and they hired 11 new staff. The UK is saved

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Indeed despite 0 job losses but because it was a leave voting area the remoaners have been all over it meanwhile in another leave voting area ..

Oldham manufacturer opens new £3million production line

https://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/...ufacturer-opens-new-£3million-production-line

More jobs, good news story .. but naff all press coverage.

I don't think I have covered that one. More proof of jobs being created.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

The first episode is about Brexit ..... the EU make some 'interesting' comments. Do watch if you can, it's very enlightening.

I shall try.

You still haven't really answered my question about whether or not "most EU negotiations go down to the wire and only get settled when everyone's feet are to the fire". The Greek example seems like a radically different scenario and the other points about 'interesting' comments does't give me much to go on.

Anyways, I'll stop now asking now as personally I don't see the EU budging much on he backstop issue regardless.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Then I'm sure they'll have told you that 62% of Greeks REJECTED the bailout deal in the first referendum !

I'll think you will find [MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] and numerous other pro-EU contributors on this thread are completely fine with imposed austerity leading to mass unemployment (26%) youth unemployment (58%), jump in suicides, 25% contaction in the Greek economy, 400,000 people emigrating. Apparently it's Ok because they supposedly voted for it although they fail to mention thay voted with a gun to their heads.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I shall try.

You still haven't really answered my question about whether or not "most EU negotiations go down to the wire and only get settled when everyone's feet are to the fire". The Greek example seems like a radically different scenario and the other points about 'interesting' comments does't give me much to go on.

Anyways, I'll stop now asking now as personally I don't see the EU budging much on he backstop issue regardless.

There were a number of meetings / negotiations that went to the wire in the episode ..... admittedly all to do with saving the Euro. It gives the impression that the EU will back down, but only at the last minute, if they think their project is at risk. I'd suggest the project is at risk due to Brexit but others will most likely disagree.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I'll think you will find [MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] and numerous other pro-EU contributors on this thread are completely fine with imposed austerity leading to mass unemployment (26%) youth unemployment (58%), jump in suicides, 25% contaction in the Greek economy, 400,000 people emigrating. Apparently it's Ok because they supposedly voted for it although they fail to mention thay voted with a gun to their heads.

You missed out people DYING because of the imposed austerity

 

[Berty23]

Indeed despite 0 job losses but because it was a leave voting area the remoaners have been all over it meanwhile in another leave voting area ..

Oldham manufacturer opens new £3million production line

https://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/...ufacturer-opens-new-£3million-production-line

More jobs, good news story .. but naff all press coverage.

You have literally provided a link to press coverage.

Do you think 11 jobs being created should be leading the news? A new co op opened near me a few weeks ago and I didn’t see that mentioned anywhere. IT IS A DISGRACE.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'll think you will find [MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] and numerous other pro-EU contributors on this thread are completely fine with imposed austerity leading to mass unemployment (26%) youth unemployment (58%), jump in suicides, 25% contaction in the Greek economy, 400,000 people emigrating. Apparently it's Ok because they supposedly voted for it although they fail to mention thay voted with a gun to their heads.

Whereas we have imposed austerity in the UK from Westminster. 19,000 less policeman and the Criminal Justice System collapsing because of austerity.
The govenment now has a Minister for Suicide and a Minister for Food.

Nothing to do with the EU, just the Tories.

 

[The Clamp]

UK economy slumps into stagnation as Brexit uncertainty hits demand


https://www.theguardian.com/busines...tor-global-economy-uk-car-sales-business-live


The latest health check of a sector that accounts for almost 80% of UK output showed services companies starting to reduce staff numbers in response to a decline in new business.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/05/uk-services-sector-brexit-economy

Speaking about the service sector figures, Mr Williamson said: "Growth ground almost to a halt in January, matching similar disappointing news in the manufacturing and construction sectors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47127927

 

[Simster]

Indeed despite 0 job losses but because it was a leave voting area the remoaners have been all over it meanwhile in another leave voting area ..

Oldham manufacturer opens new £3million production line

https://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/...ufacturer-opens-new-£3million-production-line

More jobs, good news story .. but naff all press coverage.

Maybe it's me, but I suspect the reason this got little press coverage is that whilst this £3m production line is clearly good news, it probably won't employ seven thousand people. It is probably also worth noting that there wasn't a tax payers bribe of around £80m attached to getting that production line built - in fairness that sweetener to Nissan ought to be public news, regardless of Brexit. It is absolutely shocking that it was hidden to the taxpayer until now.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

They have invested £3 million in a second production line in an existing factory to make 15,000 more plastic wrapped doors a month and they hired 11 new staff. The UK is saved

That was last year but your point about individual examples is fair so what is the current state of the Uk jobs market ... Record employment or Big rise in unemployment due to Brexit uncertainity?

 

[The Clamp]

That was last year but your point about individual examples is fair so what is the current state of the Uk jobs market ... Record employment or Big rise in unemployment due to Brexit uncertainity?

Not for much longer.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...brexit-economy

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Whereas we have imposed austerity in the UK from Westminster. 19,000 less policeman and the Criminal Justice System collapsing because of austerity.
The govenment now has a Minister for Suicide and a Minister for Food.

Nothing to do with the EU, just the Tories.

We get to vote out our government how do the Greek people vote out bankers in Berlin/elsewhere insisting on austerity?

 

[Berty23]

That was last year but your point about individual examples is fair so what is the current state of the Uk jobs market ... Record employment or Big rise in unemployment due to Brexit uncertainity?

Is record employment despite being in the EU then? Odd.

More seriously jobs figures are lagged. Let’s see how they go over the next few months. It all takes a while as investment declines and then the future jobs don’t appear so old jobs stop without a replacement. This is exactly what minford (the one economist who supports brexit) said would happen as manufacturing gets run down.

Do you think manaufacturing in this country could survive if we implement zero tariff? If we implement zero tariff then why would anyone negotiate a trade deal with us because by definition it would be worse or the same as 0%