[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

Brexit blues for investors in eurozone

Investor morale in the eurozone has hit a four-year low, driven down by fears about Brexit and weaker global growth.

The Sentix index, which monitors investor sentiment in the single currency bloc, dropped to -3.7 this month, from -1.5 in January. The sixth consecutive monthly fall leaves it at its lowest level since November 2014....

A separate index on investor morale in Germany fell from 6.1 to 3.1, the fourth consecutive decline, hitting its lowest level since August 2012.

“The German economy, which has been the economic locomotive of the eurozone in recent years, is losing more steam,” Mr Hübner said. The German export model was coming under pressure both from Brexit and problems that the car industry is facing in China, he said.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/beb32b86-28b4-11e9-92e2-27eb1cf1c11f

Perhaps those German exporters and car manufacturers should get on the phone to Brussels, start applying some pressure ...

#jobsb4polticalunion

The economic situation in the wider world has helped saved our bacon since 2016. Now tougher times worldwide and a bad Brexit are bringing reality home

Don't worry about the German car workers, I'd be more concerned about our own on the margins that are about to be screwed over

 

[Pavilionaire]

HMG have been piss poor in negotiations but to be fair most EU negotiations go down to the wire and only get settled when everyone's feet are to the fire.

Do you honestly think that the EU are going to budge? They will not want to throw Ireland under a bus, and similarly they will not want to show weakness to any of the other 27 and risk the EU fracturing.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Delusional/wishful thinking.

Polls come and go the fact is the unionist parties don't support it and a majority in the UK parliament agree which is of paramount importance to getting a deal. Peddling an Irish nationalist agenda won't change that.

Oh dear. It's not an Irish nationalist agenda. Those unionist parties voters in Northern Ireland support it. It was formulated by The UK Government too. Reneging on it and ripping it up The Good Friday Agreement will do this country's standing even more harm, then we've already managed to do in the last 3 years. Hopefully the views emanating from Washington may focus minds on what real and lasting damage we will cause to our reputation though.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

HMG have been piss poor in negotiations but to be fair most EU negotiations go down to the wire and only get settled when everyone's feet are to the fire.

Indeed. You only need to watch the current BBC series 'Inside Europe : Ten Years of Turmoil' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b0c1rjj7 ( particularly the 'Going for Broke' episode ) to see how these things go to the wire ( and that the EU can back down ). It's also particularly telling how spiteful the EU come across as well ...... oh and how much money the EU spent saving their cosy little club called the Eurozone and expected US to help pay for it !!!! I have a new found respect for Alistair Darling !

EDIT - and it highlights how much the EU absolutely HATE direct democracy.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The economic situation in the wider world has helped saved our bacon since 2016. Now tougher times worldwide and a bad Brexit are bringing reality home

Don't worry about the German car workers, I'd be more concerned about our own on the margins that are about to be screwed over

Actually, it was consumer spending at home that dumbfounded all the doom-mongers after the vote. The global economy is always a factor when economic data exceeds your predictions but always nowhere to be seen when any negative UK economic data arrives.

I always worry about my fellow Europeans welfare ... I'm that sort of guy

 

[Rodney Thomas]

HMG have been piss poor in negotiations but to be fair most EU negotiations go down to the wire and only get settled when everyone's feet are to the fire.

Do they?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Do they?

Post two up from yours - try watching the link ...... you may well change sides !

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Do you honestly think that the EU are going to budge? They will not want to throw Ireland under a bus, and similarly they will not want to show weakness to any of the other 27 and risk the EU fracturing.

If we keep no deal on the table yes. I see EU representatives (European commission secretary general) have already been over to see what concessions would be acceptable. Not throwing Ireland under the bus but perhaps just getting there foot run over could do it ..

 

[nicko31]

Still completely stopped by Russia. No movement in last 3 months.

Russia have the potential to really cause us a lot of grief in the event of a no deal Brexit with tariff schedules, they don't have much to lose.,

Problem is the WTO is very undemocratic, its not like having MEP's in Brussels.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Post two up from yours - try watching the link ...... you may well change sides !

I'm afraid I am not in the UK and therefore can't watch it. I'd be genuinely interested to hear from you what the documentary outlined. I'm always happy to listen.

(By the way, I am not sure I'll be changing sides as I was one of those very critical of the EU during the negotiations with Greece. I have an emotional attachment to the country but I genuinely believe they were wrong in their handling of the crisis)

 

[Lincoln Imp]

[tweet]1092337330218827777[/tweet]

The Bregrets are emerging in interesting places. This from the Labour Leader of Sunderland Council: "When people were told Brexit would be easy, have no impact on business confidence and there would be deals lined up ready to sign, this (i.e. Nissan) shows all of that was a lie." Perhaps a couple of NSC's finest could nip up there and tell him he's a hypocritical moron too.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I'm afraid I am not in the UK and therefore can't watch it. I'd be genuinely interested to hear from you what the documentary outlined. I'm always happy to listen.

(By the way, I am not sure I'll be changing sides as I was one of those very critical of the EU during the negotiations with Greece. I have an emotional attachment to the country but I genuinely believe they were wrong in their handling of the crisis)

There's a lot of detail in both the 1 hour episodes broadcast so far but in relation to the 'go to the wire' bit, the second episode concentrates on the EU saving the Euro because of Greece. Merkel wanted to push Greece out of the Eurozone. In the first round the EU proposed propping up the Euro with around 60Bn Euros, the Americans laughed and said it needed multiples of that. In the end it cost around $1Tn ( US Dollars ) and that was just the first stage. The EU meeting was throughout the night and they knew they had to come to an agreement before the Tokyo markets opened which would have seen the Euro decimated in trading. THIRTEEN Eurozone members were at risk of going bankrupt if this happened. They came to an agreement with minutes to spare ( and after Darling had told them to eff off about the UK paying any money into the rescue ).

Regardless of what side you're on the series shows a worrying state of politics in Europe. I recommend trying a VPN to watch it. It's particularly worth watching just to see the German 'Iron Lady' pushed to tears by Obama telling her the truth

EDIT - and even as a leaver, and I never thought I'd say this, it makes Tusk come across quite well ***goes to wash his mouth out with soap and water***

 

[nicko31]

The Bregrets are emerging in interesting places. This from the Labour Leader of Sunderland Council: "When people were told Brexit would be easy, have no impact on business confidence and there would be deals lined up ready to sign, this (i.e. Nissan) shows all of that was a lie." Perhaps a couple of NSC's finest could nip up there and tell him he's a hypocritical moron too.

Expect the word BREGRET to become all too common place, unless the country can come to its senses in the coming weeks

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Russia have the potential to really cause us a lot of grief in the event of a no deal Brexit with tariff schedules, they don't have much to lose.,

Problem is the WTO is very undemocratic, its not like having MEP's in Brussels.

Like these you mean?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Nissan this, Nissan that, they make it look like they are the only manufacturing company we have in this country, ridiculous.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There's a lot of detail in both the 1 hour episodes broadcast so far but in relation to the 'go to the wire' bit, the second episode concentrates on the EU saving the Euro because of Greece. Merkel wanted to push Greece out of the Eurozone. In the first round the EU proposed propping up the Euro with around 60Bn Euros, the Americans laughed and said it needed multiples of that. In the end it cost around $1Tn ( US Dollars ) and that was just the first stage. The EU meeting was throughout the night and they knew they had to come to an agreement before the Tokyo markets opened which would have seen the Euro decimated in trading. THIRTEEN Eurozone members were at risk of going bankrupt if this happened. They came to an agreement with minutes to spare ( and after Darling had told them to eff off about the UK paying any money into the rescue ).

Regardless of what side you're on the series shows a worrying state of politics in Europe. I recommend trying a VPN to watch it. It's particularly worth watching just to see the German 'Iron Lady' pushed to tears by Obama telling her the truth

EDIT - and even as a leaver, and I never thought I'd say this, it makes Tusk come across quite well ***goes to wash his mouth out with soap and water***

Yet in the 2012 elections the Greeks returned a Pro Europe government who agreed to the bailout terms because it was the only way to get their economy back on track.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/world/europe/greek-elections.html

 

[Rodney Thomas]

There's a lot of detail in both the 1 hour episodes broadcast so far but in relation to the 'go to the wire' bit, the second episode concentrates on the EU saving the Euro because of Greece. Merkel wanted to push Greece out of the Eurozone. In the first round the EU proposed propping up the Euro with around 60Bn Euros, the Americans laughed and said it needed multiples of that. In the end it cost around $1Tn ( US Dollars ) and that was just the first stage. The EU meeting was throughout the night and they knew they had to come to an agreement before the Tokyo markets opened which would have seen the Euro decimated in trading. THIRTEEN Eurozone members were at risk of going bankrupt if this happened. They came to an agreement with minutes to spare ( and after Darling had told them to eff off about the UK paying any money into the rescue ).

Regardless of what side you're on the series shows a worrying state of politics in Europe. I recommend trying a VPN to watch it. It's particularly worth watching just to see the German 'Iron Lady' pushed to tears by Obama telling her the truth

EDIT - and even as a leaver, and I never thought I'd say this, it makes Tusk come across quite well ***goes to wash his mouth out with soap and water***

I'll have to find a way to watch it. It does seem fascinating and I would be surprised if I didn't agree with much of the assessments you made by watching it (although I am sure it is open to a little more interpretation than you let on).

However, I'm not sure that comparing the Eurozone/Greek bailout crisis to Brexit is that appropriate. The former was about self preservation while the latter is more about protection, no? Does the Greek crisis really prove that the EU will budge when it comes to Brexit?

I'm happy to be wrong about this, it's not my area of expertise.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nissan this, Nissan that, they make it look like they are the only manufacturing company we have in this country, ridiculous.

Oh, that's alright then

VoteLeave didn't make a big thing about Nissan saying they were still going to invest in the UK in 2016, and all those people in Sunderland, having lost the mines and shipyards are just a nuisance for wanting jobs. Not to mention the EU grants the area had had.

In fact, Nissan started legal action against VoteLeave for using their logo in their campaign in 2016
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nissan...-using-our-logo-without-permission-1466475922

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'll have to find a way to watch it. It does seem fascinating and I would be surprised if I didn't agree with much of the assessments you made by watching it (although I am sure it is open to a little more interpretation than you let on).

However, I'm not sure that comparing the Eurozone/Greek bailout crisis to Brexit is that appropriate. The former was about self preservation while the latter is more about protection, no? Does the Greek crisis really prove that the EU will budge when it comes to Brexit?

I'm happy to be wrong about this, it's not my area of expertise.

Greece wasis in the euro, and so it was a currency issue. It is not the same as Brexit, as we still have sterling.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yet in the 2012 elections the Greeks returned a Pro Europe government who agreed to the bailout terms because it was the only way to get their economy back on track.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/world/europe/greek-elections.html

Sometimes you sound like a broken record. You fail to mention the Greeks returned an anti-EU PM to power for a second time and also rejected a bailout via referendum. The referendum you mention was the second one and only after the anti-EU government had been backed into a corner. Watch the documentary and see how vindictive and and nasty the EU are ( oh and how not only did they break their own rules to allow Greece in to the Eurozone but then broke them again TWICE to save their Euro project by providing bailouts which the rules didn't allow for ).