[Politics] Brexit

[cunning fergus]

Plenty I'm alright jack types of final salary pensions, blaming the EU how bad the final years have turned out

As there are landowners in the Houses of Lords in receipt of millions from the EU CAP telling us how great it is,,,,,,,,,what is your point, you can be direct, don’t hide behind innuendo?

 

[cunning fergus]

[MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] , why do you repeatedly state that we joined the common market in 1974, when all references i can find say we joined on 1st January, 1973. Also, my memory of it was 1973.
Unfortunately, I am old enough to remember.

You are right, it’s the general election of 74 I think of.......an error of detail that doesn’t change the point I am making about change since joining.

 

[nicko31]

As there are landowners in the Houses of Lords in receipt of millions from the EU CAP telling us how great it is,,,,,,,,,what is your point, you can be direct, don’t hide behind innuendo?

Dunno ask James Dyson....

 

[Bold Seagull]

For the record though I think you are born into your social class, and whatever happens in your life you remain rooted in that class. On that score I am not social class AB.

Are you not confusing the social grade system with class? I thought social grade was an indication of employment, i.e. AB is professionals, management etc. AB can be a mix of working, middle and upper classes. Think you've got a crossover of terms.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You (and a couple of others on here) have an unhealthy interest in my personal details, they are not important to this debate, I have never asked anyone to disclose theirs, nor have I seen that requested for other posters.

I have previously disclosed on other threads where I was bought up and some other details, they seem to pop up from other posters from time to time as insults so I will keep my powder dry.

For the record though I think you are born into your social class, and whatever happens in your life you remain rooted in that class. On that score I am not social class AB.

I will disagree with your last paragraph. My grandparents were a farm worker & a baker living in rented accommodation. My paren lived in council houses (they divorced). I passed my 11+, but only reached O levels.
I did manage to become an owner occupier but still stayed at administration level.
My children are a Watch Comander in the Fire Service, and a Chartered Tax accountant. My grandchildren are being privately educated. All through choice and hard work.
So from peasants to professionals in 3 generations.

 

[cunning fergus]

Are you not confusing the social grade system with class? I thought social grade was an indication of employment, i.e. AB is professionals, management etc. AB can be a mix of working, middle and upper classes. Think you've got a crossover of terms.

Im not confusing class and social grades, i am merely correcting assertions made on here that the rich and influential were behind Brexit.

Some rich and influential were i am not denying that, but the FACTS are that it was the poor and powerless that overwhelmingly supported leave.

Over 7,000 pages of discussion on here and some are still confused about who voted leave.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/london-separate-city-state-leave-voters-class

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

We need to accept this reality, understand whose side we are on. For remainers i suggest an view on how the poor and powerless will benefit from more EU....mostly so far its threats.

 

[cunning fergus]

I will disagree with your last paragraph. My grandparents were a farm worker & a baker living in rented accommodation. My paren lived in council houses (they divorced). I passed my 11+, but only reached O levels.
I did manage to become an owner occupier but still stayed at administration level.
My children are a Watch Comander in the Fire Service, and a Chartered Tax accountant. My grandchildren are being privately educated. All through choice and hard work.
So from peasants to professionals in 3 generations.

I dont see any disagreement, unless you are saying your privately educated grandchildren can describe themselves as working class?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Im not confusing class and social grades, i am merely correcting assertions made on here that the rich and influential were behind Brexit.

Some rich and influential were i am not denying that, but the FACTS are that it was the poor and powerless that overwhelmingly supported leave.

Over 7,000 pages of discussion on here and some are still confused about who voted leave.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/london-separate-city-state-leave-voters-class

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

We need to accept this reality, understand whose side we are on. For remainers i suggest an view on how the poor and powerless will benefit from more EU....mostly so far its threats.

Lets face it Fergus - the Bennite, eurosceptic vision and polices of Dennis Skinner post Brexit you like and admire stand zero chance of ever reaching No.10.

Post Brexit outside The EU, how will the 'the poor and powerless' benefit from your fellow Brexiteers, like Rees-Mogg, Paterson, Raab, Redwood et al Singaporean dream? Brexit is just the golden opportunity to finish off Thatchersim for them, because she didn't go nearly far enough back then for them.

Of course the other thing, which is broadly being reflected with current immigration figures, is EU migration is being replaced one-for-one with non-EU migration. Over 30% of Singapore's workforce is immigrants. With low wages, low regulations, small state and being surrounded by developing countries full of poor people - why not, eh? So how do you think the 'poor and powerless' will benefit from the new immigration realities post Brexit ie less Polish and Belgians and more Pakistanis and Bangladeshis once your fellow wealthy Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg, Paterson, Raab, Redwood et al have done their worst?

 

[WATFORD zero]

You (and a couple of others on here) have an unhealthy interest in my personal details, they are not important to this debate, I have never asked anyone to disclose theirs, nor have I seen that requested for other posters.

I have previously disclosed on other threads where I was bought up and some other details, they seem to pop up from other posters from time to time as insults so I will keep my powder dry.

For the record though I think you are born into your social class, and whatever happens in your life you remain rooted in that class. On that score I am not social class AB.

I just think it is interesting that a hard Brexit and the ensuing volatility in the financial markets would be a wonderful opportunity for people in the City to make some very big money (as they did in the run up to 2008), safe in the knowledge that, when it all goes wrong, the country will bail them out and the poor will pick up the bill through austerity.

Still, you would hope that the regulators would show a little more competence this time round, wouldn't you.

Having worked with [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION], and knowing what he still does for a living, I'm aware he has a very intimate working knowledge of the regulation of financial markets and firms that operate within it. He lives and breathes it at a level I could not imagine, nor want to deal with.

Probably just a hobby though

 

[Gwylan]

Good summary of the situation from north of the border. I hadn't realised that Tony Blair had called for the English league and the MTL to be merged though.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17380230.holyrood-is-getting-duntit-aboot-like-a-diddy-team/

May's "shoogly-peg government" is a wonderful phrase - I'm going use that one again.

 

[ManOfSussex]

For the record though I think you are born into your social class, and whatever happens in your life you remain rooted in that class. On that score I am not social class AB.

Both you and Margaret Thatcher remained working class then. I see.

 

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

For the record though I think you are born into your social class, and whatever happens in your life you remain rooted in that class. On that score I am not social class AB.

Does that make Jesus a horse?

Regards
DR

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I dont see any disagreement, unless you are saying your privately educated grandchildren can describe themselves as working class?

No, I wouldn't say that, but it shows you don't have to stay in the 'class' you are born into. That's over 60 years out of date. My mother went into service at 15. That way of life doesn't exist now.

 

[Bold Seagull]

For the record though I think you are born into your social class, and whatever happens in your life you remain rooted in that class. On that score I am not social class AB.

Im not confusing class and social grades, i am merely correcting assertions made on here that the rich and influential were behind Brexit.

Well, if you're not confusing the two, then your first statement is a mistake as regardless of what you were born into and rooted in, it wouldn't stop you from being AB.

 

[Baker lite]

63 days to go, happy Friday everyone.



On our way.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Probably just a hobby though

Either that or he's retired or coming up to it, because after Brexit once the City of London is transformed into Singapore-On-Thames meets the Cayman Islands by his fellow wealthy Brexiteers there'll be as many financial regulators in this country as there are coal miners.

 

[A1X]

[TWEET]1088696249652572160[/TWEET]

 

[BBassic]

For the record though I think you are born into your social class, and whatever happens in your life you remain rooted in that class. On that score I am not social class AB.

I think I agree with you, broadly speaking. Class is something I've struggled with for a while. I was definitely born into a working class family yet now, if we're going by things such as salary and home ownership, I'm distinctly middle class. Yet I still very much identify as a working class boy. Other people I've spoken to, friends from my childhood feel much the same way. It's a strange one.

I did read a really interesting book that you may also enjoy: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Social-Class-Century-Pelican-Books/dp/0241004225

Written in collaboration with the team behind the Great British Class Survey.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

[TWEET]1088696249652572160[/TWEET]

That laugh during the last two seconds of the video

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I wonder what would have happened if appeasement had won in 1937 though and then a load of headless chickens had started whining saying the appeasement treaty must not be signed and concluded, we don’t agree with that referendum result the thicko public have given, they are clearly poorly educated, screw the democratic result and do it again before we sign and conclude the appeasement treaty.
Any idea how that might have played out?

Well I'll give it a go.

I suppose if a 1937 referendum had gone as expected and the 'appeasement means appeasement and everyone else is an undemocratic loon' faction had held sway then world history would have played out differently. Alternatively, if the whining of the headless chickens had led to a second referendum three years later then we might have been able to start placing Spitfire orders in the summer of 1940. That would have been good.

The only other option I suppose is that whiners such as Churchill reacted to the 1937 referendum and said "Bugger that. I'm ignoring it." Obviously the will of the people lot would have been incandescent but they would have be grateful in the long run.