[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

There is no way I am classed as an AB, as I am most definitely, even by your definition, working class. I've been a trade union member for the majority of my working life.
I've seen my working conditions improve way above what I thought would happen because of EU rules, like maternity leave, the working week, and even an extra Bank Holiday.

The UK introduced maternity leave BEFORE it joined the EEC. And what extra Bank Holiday is it the EU have given us ?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Simple solution - freedom of movement should only apply amongst people of broadly similar strength economies, just as it was in the 90s when the EC was made up of 12 or so wealthy nations . That way, there is no enormous influx of cheap (often unskilled) labour that undercuts local people. You'll recall that British labourers took advantage of this themselves - Auf wiedersehen pet was a television comedy all about it. The whole thing started to unravel when the iron curtain came down and those nations joined the EU. Nothing wrong with that, as long as there were conditions on freedom of movement from those poorer nations for an agreed period of time.

Oh wait, there were. It's just that successive governments didn't impose those seven year clauses. You can blame 5 years of Blairite Labour and then the Tories for all of that. Had they looked after their people, we'd never have been in this mess.

Oh and the uneducated is *not* a euphemism for the working class, that's you and your tedious class-warrior narrative kicking in yet again. It's a euphemism for complete simpletons like the handful of brexiteers on here who are too stupid to engage in meaningful debate. I'm not talking about the likes of Westene, Gwylan, Portslade, GT49 or yourself, I'm talking about people like 2 braincells, bakerlite and sir albion who don't ever bother thinking and responding sensibly to genuine brexit concerns. These people are fcking idiots. Oh and they'd probably take issue with your working class definitions themselves, especially as I doubt any of them would vote for Corbyn in a million years.

The interesting thing is, the labour market has already started to balance. Yes, Brexit could be a defining factor, but it's true that migration from the less economic EU countries to the richer ones has been reducing. Countries like Romania, Poland are seeing their own economies improve and those migrant workers that may have spent 2, 3 or whatever years in the UK, Germany or France are returning home. The 'they're taking our jobs' is proving to be a myth, because the jobs are now vacant and desperate to be filled.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....british-fishermen-square-up-to-no-deal-brexit

Fisherman on a whole voted for Brexit and are now worried about what it means.

I don't know much about fishing. But I apparently knew more about the UK fishing industry's reliance on the EU market than UK fishermen did when they cast their fateful votes on June 23.

 

[nicko31]

[TWEET]1088014419358027776[/TWEET]

The problem is the government are in so deep with their lies I'm not sure what the way out is. They are incapable with being truthful, and no doubt their offshore mates in the right wing press will back them up

Just this morning Liam Fox is harping on about the betrayal of delaying A50.

But lets face it, unless there's a crash out you have to delay A50 with any deal.

Even if May's deal goes through she has run the clock down so much we're out of time to pass all the legislation

 

[A1X]

Even in the event of No Deal they still need more time to actually do the prep work for it, including passing the legislative instruments. It is ironic that the more the Brexiters insist the crash out happens at the end of March the less likely it is that Brexit will actually work and be sustained for any length of time, the bigger the disaster the more the public will expect the Government to row back.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You think you were offering a thought, when a little further on you make the assumption (and leap) that because they are uneducated they are more susceptible to the clarion calls of leave press.

So there is your prejudice, concerning the uneducated (which is a euphemism for the working class) and the leave campaign combined. The truth of course is that many millions of the working class are living lives that are more profoundly affected by (say) competing for work with EU workers than social classes AB will never know about.

That’s why the ABs voted overwhelmingly remain, the working class didn’t.

In the circumstances why don’t you offer a thought how working class people will see their working conditions prosper by remaining in the EU with its unregulated labour market?

Again, you miss the point. I did indeed offer the thought that people with lower levels of education (like me, again) might tend to be less interested in politics but I wasn't stating it is a fact and I made it clear that it wasn't my main point - my main point was that there is a correlation between education levels and life opportunities. You ignored that, presumably because it didn't give you the opportunity for a shout.

You state as a fact that 'less educated' is a euphemism for 'working class'. No it's not and in any case you know perfectly well that I was not attempting to denigrate ordinary working people.

One thing I do agree with you is the suggestion that members of the 'working class' (to use your label) can be affected by job competition from EU workers. It happens in places I know, such as Boston. But 'many millions'? Where is your evidence for that?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The UK introduced maternity leave BEFORE it joined the EEC. And what extra Bank Holiday is it the EU have given us ?

Maternity leave improved dramatically after we joined the EU.
May Bank holiday started in 1978, because the UK realised it was way behind Europe with the number of public holidays.

 

[Trufflehound]

The UK introduced maternity leave BEFORE it joined the EEC.

Maternity leave improved dramatically after we joined the EU.

Indeed. The UK introduced 'partial' maternity leave in 1975. (Which in any case wasn't "BEFORE" it joined the EEC, but hey ho).

But that wasn't universal, as it excluded many women on the basis of length of service, etc.

Maternity leave was only made universal in the UK in 1993, after (and as a direct result of) the introduction of this 1992 EC Directive: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=LEGISSUM:c10914

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Just this morning Liam Fox is harping on about the betrayal of delaying A50.

What a twunt that man is. Saying delaying A50 is worse than no deal... I mean... if you believe that nonsense, you deserve to be lied to.

 

[Simster]

As I recall, we also only implemented the EU social charter (with the full range of labour rights including minimum pay) after the Labour government came in. Leaving the EU will mean we'll no longer be signed up to it. We'll probably see rights stagnate or worsen as they usually do under the Tories, because people will never ever vote a socialist government in this country (which at the moment is the only alternative)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Indeed. The UK introduced 'partial' maternity leave in 1975. (Which in any case wasn't "BEFORE" it joined the EEC, but hey ho).

But that wasn't universal, as it excluded many women on the basis of length of service, etc.

Maternity leave was only made universal in the UK in 1993, after (and as a direct result of) the introduction of this 1992 EC Directive: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=LEGISSUM:c10914

I did get some maternity benefit from the government when I had my son in 1970, but nothing at all from work. It was only for a certain number of weeks (I can't remember exactly how many)

As you rightly say, the employer's maternity leave was definitely after we joined.

 

[Two Professors]

Any danger of a response to this [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION], I enjoy a good history debate

Profuse apologies,been rather too busy to come on here.I doubt very much if there would be much debate,as you sound somewhat entrenched in your views,but what the heck.How about this,for example,detailing how events occurred after the Greek surrender?

 

[Two Professors]

Well, there's 2 for sure, the CEO and the FD - And I guarantee you that CEOs and FDs don't like working without a team around them. There will be many roles relocating to Singapore from the UK, regardless of what the company claims.

That's because it's so hard for Dyson to recruit staff in Great Britain with our record-breaking employment levels.Perhaps he should have tried recruiting in Europe,with their mass unemployment.

 

[Simster]

That's because it's so hard for Dyson to recruit staff in Great Britain with our record-breaking employment levels.Perhaps he should have tried recruiting in Europe,with their mass unemployment.

Really? But [MENTION=5729]sir albion[/MENTION] seems to think it is because all our engineers are idiots who did nothing at university except doss about and join loony left sympathising groups, yet here's you telling us that it is because all our highly skilled engineers are already taken.

Two conflicting "working class" views as to why Dyson aren't recruiting in the UK then. Which to believe? I'll leave it to middle-income IT man and voice of the peeeple [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] to inform us all of the correct answer, seeing as he behaves as if he is the one person on the internet who is allowed to speak for all British working classes.

 

[Two Professors]

Really? But [MENTION=5729]sir albion[/MENTION] seems to think it is because all our engineers are idiots who did nothing at university except doss about and join loony left sympathising groups, yet here's you telling us that it is because all our highly skilled engineers are already taken.

Two conflicting "working class" views as to why Dyson aren't recruiting in the UK then. Which to believe? I'll leave it to middle-income IT man and voice of the peeeple [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] to inform us all of the correct answer, seeing as he behaves as if he is the one person on the internet who is allowed to speak for all British working classes.

Perhaps I agree with Sir Albion about the quality of graduates from some of the so-called universities nowadays,but am unable to comment due to politeness.You know how I try to avoid upsetting people,particularly the more challenged of posters.I must admit,I often wonder if Pluke and Mental veggie are graduate types.

 

[Trufflehound]

...all our engineers are idiots who did nothing at university except doss about

To be fair, I read engineering at university, and many people on the same course (including myself to a certain extent) did nothing except doss about...

But only some of us are idiots...

 

[Simster]

To be fair, I read engineering at university, and many people on the same course (including myself to a certain extent) did nothing except doss about...

But only some of us are idiots...

I lived with an engineering student and it must be said that his coursework absolutely mounted up while the rest of us did the doss thing!

 

[A1X]

I lived with an engineering student and it must be said that his coursework absolutely mounted up while the rest of us did the doss thing!

Did they give you the degree if it piled up then you made a bridge out of it which could take the weight of the lecturer?

 

[Trufflehound]

Did they give you the degree if it piled up then you made a bridge out of it which could take the weight of the lecturer?

Most of our bridge models were made from empty beer cans...

 

[Triggaaar]

His company is now registered in Singapore. Singapore has a free trade deal with the EU. Dyson will have access to that free trade deal.

Yes. We don't yet know if that will be better than had they stayed here.

This really isn't complicated.