[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

You think?

He took a punt, caveat emptor.......what about these “decent blokes”?

https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/...pay-our-richest-landowners-millions-subsidies

They get money for nothing......people like Hesaltine and the 8th Duke of Wellington, (he of most cleaning fame). You need to check whose side you are on before you start throwing stones!

He took info from an exit poll he commissioned, which said Leave had won, then went in front of the TV cameras and said it looked as though Leave had lost. Pound rises on this indication, before plummeting when the official result came out. Farage now uses private jets to commute to his job.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The problem is, we won't be negotiating new deals after this deal - we won't be buying more cars, this deal is it.

Agreed on the 'making it unattractive to other members' bit
What? You're being silly for the sake of it. You think the EU want to give us the best possible terms (whilst also taking the first point into account)? You know that's ridiculous and I imagine if I searched the thread I'd find examples of you saying the opposite. Although we're a customer, we're looking at signing a lifelong agreement, not one that lasts a couple of years before we get our next car.

So, you get yourself a great deal, that makes it bad for the other party you negotiated with, but it's really important they still have the money to buy and trade from you, only you've made the deal so one sided, that the trade dries up. The expression I believe is cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Lets stick with cars, and take every car manufacturer in the EU suddenly seeing a huge drop in UK sales because the EU negotiated a deal so bad for the UK that made their cars incredibly bad value for UK consumers.

It's a bit like the Porsche salesman knowing I am in love with a Porsche, knowing all I want is a Porsche. Now I can say, well I'm going to look at a Ferrari to try to get a better deal, but the Porsche salesman doesn't care, he knows, he senses I want a Porsche, me saying I'm getting a Ferrari is an empty threat, it serves my purpose of getting a good deal on a Porsche no advantage over the guy who walks in and says, "I'm definitely getting a Porsche, what's the best deal you can give me". The second guy probably does get the best deal!

 

[cunning fergus]

What makes you say that?

Understanding the origins of what is left wing (radicalism) and right wing (conservatism).

Brexit supporters are radical, remain supporters are Tories.

 

[cunning fergus]

He took info from an exit poll he commissioned, which said Leave had won, then went in front of the TV cameras and said it looked as though Leave had lost. Pound rises on this indication, before plummeting when the official result came out. Farage now uses private jets to commute to his job.

How does multi millionaire hereditary Tory Peer Lord Wellington get up to the Lords?

Do you think he uses his own money, puts it on expenses or dips into the money he gets from the EU CAP.

Decisions decisions...

 

[pb21]

Understanding the origins of what is left wing (radicalism) and right wing (conservatism).

Brexit supporters are radical, remain supporters are Tories.

The historical left wing opposition to the monarchy and secular beliefs

 

[Bold Seagull]

I don’t care if you want to have a pop at Farage, but to suggest he is somehow acting in the interests of the establishment is absurd.

The establishment are overwhelmingly pro EU, as no doubt are landowners getting millions from CAP, many are both.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ses-were-only-group-to-vote-to-stay-in-the-e/

I am happy to debate the pros and cons of Brexit but those who propagate the myth that the EU is a socialist concern despised by Tory Toffs will be challenged for their error.........the establishment make money from the EU, the poor don’t.

The Agricultural Bill doesn't read much better the the CAP either, and can bypass Parliament and the devolved legislatures. Of course, trying to rush it through in the shadow of Brexit replacing a regressive policy with another is only to be expect I guess.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I don’t care if you want to have a pop at Farage, but to suggest he is somehow acting in the interests of the establishment is absurd.

The establishment are overwhelmingly pro EU, as no doubt are landowners getting millions from CAP, many are both.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ses-were-only-group-to-vote-to-stay-in-the-e/

I am happy to debate the pros and cons of Brexit but those who propagate the myth that the EU is a socialist concern despised by Tory Toffs will be challenged for their error.........the establishment make money from the EU, the poor don’t.

Once again, totally missing the point. Maybe reread my previous post. The one that you quoted. Or the one before that. Correcting you is boring. Where did I say that Nige was acting on behalf of the establishment? Oh yeah, I didn't.

I said he was a fraud. A con man. A liar. That he'd fooled countless people into thinking that he's something that he's not. A snake oil salesman who would sell his mother for a pension from the EU. Oh no, he's already got that.

You should be in politics as you just say what you want regardless of what anyone else has said.

Strong look. If the look you're going for is "massive BELL". But you carry on if it makes you happy sweet cheeks.

XXX

LL

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

For a bit of light relief, I saw this on the beach at Cuckmere Haven over the Christmas break.

 

[lawros left foot]

No matter what side you’re on, the fact that Parliament is only sitting for 37 days of the 72 days left until March 29 th is quite unbelievable.

 

[A1X]

Worth remembering what happened 23 June 2016.
Remember that? That was the people's vote.

I do. I also remember the time it was proven that the Leave campaign broke electoral rules, and when the Government lost it's majority and still decided it should negotiate alone, and when 16.5m people were ignored, traduced, slandered and branded as "traitors".

Well guess what. We're back.

 

[Baldseagull]

Sensible in who's eyes ? For me as a leaver I would still consider it a possible 'remain' via the backdoor. We've already decided to leave. If there has to be another vote then all the options have to be leave options.

In that case, a Norway + customs union type Leave would win, which would not resolve freedom of movement, which would piss off the immigration haters, piss off the Sovereignty lovers and piss off the deregulation free traders. i.e. pretty much all the people that voted leave.

 

[A1X]

While people discuss whether or not Farage is part of the elite because he used a private plane, they are ignoring the much bigger issue of him shorting the pound on the night of the referendum.

And yet some people still think he's some sort of "decent bloke" "man of the people".

It's unbelievable.

It's also worth remembering what "shorting the pound" involves. It involves betting against the jobs, security, livelihoods and incomes of ordinary people. These are real lives being ruined which he has got rich off the back off. He's the very worst sort of tosser going.

 

[A1X]

But if you put Remain on it it defranchises 52%, the winners. Sometimes in life you have to accept when you have lost and suck it up.

And what if any of those 52% want to change their minds? Or is changing of minds not allowed in this version of reality?

 

[Baldseagull]

It makes more sense to have only Leave options on a second referendum but there is one difficulty with that. If 50% of the electorate feel disenfranchised by that and don't vote, it's possible that a decision could be made by just 12 to 15% of the electorate: I think that any government would have a hard time to justify act according to the 'will of the people' in such circumstances.

But, if another referendum did include a Remain option, it could win by default if Leave votes are split two or three ways.

What a mess.

Preferential voting would sort that.

 

[Triggaaar]

So, you get yourself a great deal, that makes it bad for the other party you negotiated with, but it's really important they still have the money to buy and trade from you, only you've made the deal so one sided, that the trade dries up. The expression I believe is cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Our eventual deal with the EU could vary greatly from reasonable to terrible, while still not risking making ourselves bankrupt and unable to provide future trade with the EU (or not bankrupt, but so poorly off that the EU suffer). The idea that the EU will give us a good deal in order to make sure we can continue to work with them in the future is preposterous, and already proven so by the fact that they've not offered us a good deal. It seems that you're arguing for the sake of it, without really believing what you're saying.

Lets stick with cars, and take every car manufacturer in the EU suddenly seeing a huge drop in UK sales because the EU negotiated a deal so bad for the UK that made their cars incredibly bad value for UK consumers.

But the EU aren't contemplating a deal that makes EU cars bad value for UK consumers - the deal the EU have offered us would mean no tariff on cars from the EU. With the possibility of No Deal, EU cars being poor value for UK consumers is a real threat. If we guarantee there won't be No Deal, the EU can put their feet up knowing that there won't be a tariff on any EU goods.

 

[btnbelle]

Yes, the brightest and best foreigners should stay where they are and concentrate on improving their own countries. Instead of coming over here and........

https://youtu.be/tKEsyIuTrO8

I am happy for individuals to make their own decisions.

 

[LlcoolJ]

It's also worth remembering what "shorting the pound" involves. It involves betting against the jobs, security, livelihoods and incomes of ordinary people. These are real lives being ruined which he has got rich off the back off. He's the very worst sort of tosser going.

Indeed. A grade A ****.

 

[btnbelle]

This poster is either a (ridiculously transparent) bot or the most extreme example of right-wing press brainwashing, I think I've ever seen.

30 years of Dacre propaganda writ large. If he could read your post, he'd be ******* himself stupid celebrating his success.

I don't buy the Daily Mail.

My view point is not that extreme... Would prefer a Canada +++ but happy to no deal if the EU won't accept it. Over 337,000 people have signed a petition asking for no deal.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963

 

[btnbelle]

EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive

https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

you can't keep dismissing the facts... it merely counting..

As a whole they may well pay more. If we only accept the ones that pay the most then we will be better off.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

194 For v. 170 Against at the moment, blimey it's as close as the original referendum!