[Politics] Brexit

[hans kraay fan club]

A lot, lot more than I currently accept the result of the first referendum. That was fought on topics so unrelated to the current debate on Brexit as to appear to be on a completely different subject - did we hear about 'backstops' in the referendum debate? No we did not.

So if Remain was to lose a referendum vote played on the current battlefield, I can accept the democratic result. I will still think the leavers are ridiculous to have done so, and will still bemoan what it means to our environment, our place in the world, our economy in the macro, and several of my friends jobs and careers in the micro, but at least I will know the people have decided based on the proper information.

Yes - this.

Excellent post.

 

[vegster]

Burn some sheep?

The Welsh will be doing that soon too if there is no deal.

 

[Billy the Fish]

It's blatantly not going to happen is it.

 

[BigGully]

Meanwhile:

“UK economy slows”
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46505692

“Shares in Interserve - one of the UK's largest providers of public services - have collapsed after it revealed it is seeking a rescue deal.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46505688

“Pound falls further ”
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46510636

“Crossrail delay: £1.4bn bailout as autumn 2019 launch delayed”
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-46507417

And this is just today!
[MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION], as I have said before #CountryinCrisis #BritainontheBrink I look forward to your badly written mathematically wonky reply.

Well done, you have scoured the news for some negative UK economic stories, you genuinely bore me and I really cannot be arsed to chat to a bloke calling himself [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] with an avatar of a currywurst and chips, so I would appreciate it if you don't involve me in your usual drivel, especially when you were not invited to do so.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If there was anything about the opposition they would be over this.

They have nothing, just words that contradict.

They are as much at fault.

Cowards.

 

[Bwian]

As a leaver, I probably wouldn't unless it was such a resounding percentage to remain ( say 75% plus )

That 75% figure is what the original winning percentage should have been in the referendum. A 2% winning margin or whatever it was is not "the people have decided". It was "the people are not sure". Factor in the number of people who thought they were voting for a new version of X Factor or I'm A Celebrity and that winning margin was not enough to lead us into the clusterfock we find ourselves in.

A second referendum seems to be the only way forward. Get a substantial winning percentage-either way-and then get on with repairing the damage caused by that spineless twunt Cameron. Now May has taken the coward's way out.

All good for the pound which is the worst performing currency in the world today.

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[Kinky Gerbil]

I have decided to call #EUCO on #Brexit (Art. 50) on Thursday. We will not renegotiate the deal, including the backstop, but we are ready to discuss how to facilitate UK ratification. As time is running out, we will also discuss our preparedness for a no-deal scenario.


Donald Tusk

 

[Bwian]

If there was anything about the opposition they would be over this.

They have nothing, just words that contradict.

They are as much at fault.

Cowards.

Not often I agree with you but you are right in what you say. The opposition need Kier Starmer and Yvette Cooper steering their ship.

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[Is it PotG?]

That 75% figure is what the original winning percentage should have been in the referendum. A 2% winning margin or whatever it was is not "the people have decided". It was "the people are not sure". Factor in the number of people who thought they were voting for a new version of X Factor or I'm A Celebrity and that winning margin was not enough to lead us into the clusterfock we find ourselves in.

A second referendum seems to be the only way forward. Get a substantial winning percentage-either way-and then get on with repairing the damage caused by that spineless twunt Cameron. Now May has taken the coward's way out.

All good for the pound which is the worst performing currency in the world today.

In this instance, what would represent substantial, in your opinion? Another vote would not, I feel, reach 75% either way.

 

[Triggaaar]

It's blatantly not going to happen is it.

What? May's vote - or Brexit?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Not often I agree with you but you are right in what you say. The opposition need Kier Starmer and Yvette Cooper steering their ship.

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Concur

Add Umunna in that list as well.

You may not agree with him, but at least he has a proper view.

 

[vegster]

I have decided to call #EUCO on #Brexit (Art. 50) on Thursday. We will not renegotiate the deal, including the backstop, but we are ready to discuss how to facilitate UK ratification. As time is running out, we will also discuss our preparedness for a no-deal scenario.


Donald Tusk

So, its all about juggling the words to get it through..... no chance it seems.

 

[Is it PotG?]

With all the heel digging in and infighting, my 50p is going on 'No Deal'.

Would sooner have the deal on the table for the future prosperity, but hey-ho.

 

[Pavilionaire]

If we had a second referendum and got the same result, would the remainers here finally accept the democratic mandate?

Or would they want "best of five"?

If we had a second referendum and remain won, would the leavers here accept that result?

Or would they want "best of three"?

May and Cameron between them have ****ed this up so badly, I can't see any way to un-**** it now.

The "best of three" argument that Leavers put forward is ridiculous and a People's Vote will NOT be a re-run of the first vote.

The 2016 Referendum is a different, separate vote to a 2019 Referendum. Back then voters didn't know what sort of deal could be achieved, what the timescales were, anything about the divorce bill, citizen's right, Northern Ireland, the risks re the break-up of the Union etc. Now the electorate can cast their vote in the context of known facts.

 

[Triggaaar]

With all the heel digging in and infighting, my 50p is going on 'No Deal'.

Really? Surely that's the least likely outcome.

 

[Pavilionaire]

A lot, lot more than I currently accept the result of the first referendum. That was fought on topics so unrelated to the current debate on Brexit as to appear to be on a completely different subject - did we hear about 'backstops' in the referendum debate? No we did not.

So if Remain was to lose a referendum vote played on the current battlefield, I can accept the democratic result. I will still think the leavers are ridiculous to have done so, and will still bemoan what it means to our environment, our place in the world, our economy in the macro, and several of my friends jobs and careers in the micro, but at least I will know the people have decided based on the proper information.

This. What kills me about Brexit and May's intransigent position is that the 2016 campaign was fought on fiction, hopes and fears pedalled by idiots on both sides, a campaign devoid of facts and accountability.

Indeed it is remarkable that ALL of the major players have fled the scene: Cameron, Osbourne, Boris, Gove, Farage. I watched the Prime Minister in the HoC and Boris sat there at the back with his new haircut silent whilst the opposition and some of her own laid into Theresa May.

I hope that there is a People's Vote, that the lead time is short and that the campaigning is minimal.

 

[Bwian]

In this instance, what would represent substantial, in your opinion? Another vote would not, I feel, reach 75% either way.

75% is, I admit, optimistic/hopeful but the referendum majority was not sufficient enough to get us to where we currently are. I don't know what the answer is now thanks to the complete and utter shambles that is the government, closely followed by the opposition.

It is a total mess.

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[pocketseagull]

It hurts doesn't it Plooks ..... knowing your FoM is going

what an ugly, smallminded and unpleasant sentiment to have.

just horrible.

 

[Stat Brother]

This. What kills me about Brexit and May's intransigent position is that the 2016 campaign was fought on fiction, hopes and fears pedalled by idiots on both sides, a campaign devoid of facts and accountability.

Indeed it is remarkable that ALL of the major players have fled the scene: Cameron, Osbourne, Boris, Gove, Farage. I watched the Prime Minister in the HoC and Boris sat there at the back with his new haircut silent whilst the opposition and some of her own laid into Theresa May.

I hope that there is a People's Vote, that the lead time is short and that the campaigning is minimal.

"I think we've heard enough from experts".

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Jacob Rees Mogg just told journalists even if May removes backstop from Withdrawal Agreement completely it won’t be enough. Calls delay “pointless” because result is inevitable ‘unless there is a new Prime Minister’

As Predicted by some MPs

Nothing would be enough for the ERG