[Politics] Brexit

[vegster]

She has absolutely no interest in owning her deal or mistakes

No shame in her whatsoever, just as long as she can cling to her job one day at a time that's all that matters.

 

[WATFORD zero]

And a second referendum will unite the country how exactly ?

And how would it be more divisive ?

 

[ManOfSussex]

[tweet]1072161541426954241[/tweet]

 

[Is it PotG?]

And how would it be more divisive ?

A kick in the nuts for democracy?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And how would it be more divisive ?

I suspect there will be rather a lot of people that will think their voice has been ignored if the result of the first referendum is overturned. If it isn't overturned then you'll have millions of rabid remainers walking the streets randomly shouting "Stupid **** !!!" at any leave voter. A second referendum is going to make the country still divided and with many people even more bitter at the state of UK politics ..... whatever the result.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1072161541426954241[/tweet]

She's losing but wants to time waste.

I saw a tweet earlier which accuses politicians of watching the UK burn whilst fighting over who is in charge of the ashes.

 

[Ernest]

Dennis Skinner quoting Thatcher at May

 

[vegster]

Pound plummeting on the news of further uncertainty.

 

[Simster]

She has to go. This is just so inept and dishonest.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I suspect there will be rather a lot of people that will think their voice has been ignored if the result of the first referendum is overturned. If it isn't overturned then you'll have millions of rabid remainers walking the streets randomly shouting "Stupid **** !!!" at any leave voter. A second referendum is going to make the country still divided and with many people even more bitter at the state of UK politics ..... whatever the result.

But if the difference between the two factions is greater then it's been proven to be less divisive.

A kick in the nuts for democracy?

And voting is always a kick in the nuts for democracy

 

[ManOfSussex]

She's losing but wants to time waste.

I saw a tweet earlier which accuses politicians of watching the UK burn whilst fighting over who is in charge of the ashes.

Personally I think Brexit far eclipsed Suez a while back and although the context of 1940 was obviously far more serious, I've got Leo Amery's quoting of Cromwell in the final words of his speech to Chamberlain in my mind here with May:

"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

 

[Eeyore]

Probably the best statement on matters:

Father of the House Ken Clarke says "this House is not just divided into parties, it is divided into factions, and at the moment there is no majority for any single course of action going forwards."

He says "no other governments are going to start negotiations with the UK on any new arrangement whilst the British continue to explore what exactly it is that they can get a parliamentary majority to agree to."

"We are rightly bound to the Good Friday agreement," he adds, noting that it is "particularly folly for a large faction of this House to continue for an argument that Britain should have a unilateral right to declare an end to that open border at a time of their choosing".

"This is why the backstop remains inevitable," Mr Clarke says.

On the backstop issue, Theresa May says "none of the alternative arrangements that have been floated in this House would command a majority."

 

[Ernest]

If May says she is going or she is kicked out , look at the talent to replace her. Amber 'offshore' Rudd, Sajid 'power stance' Javid, Jeremy 'Sounds like' Hunt, Boris the Clown, David 'thick as mince' Davis and god forbid Esther 'blow dry' McVey, it's fair to say May is the best they've got there

 

[Eeyore]

who won in 2017 ?
regards
DR

Theresa May lost her majority.

Having followed comments by folk on both sides of the debate I can conclude that you are the person on NSC with the least worthwhile points to make.

Anyway.

We did vote to leave. It's happening. But how it happens is up for debate and must be in the best interests.

Sorry, Johnny Foreigner will be here for a little while to come. Had a nice eastern European man come and clear out my house today. Gave him a big tip. Soz.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

But if the difference between the two factions is greater then it's been proven to be less divisive.

That's a BIG if !!!! Polls suggest that remain would win by a similar margin that leave won by previously ...... hardly uniting.

 

[vegster]

Probably the best statement on matters:

Father of the House Ken Clarke says "this House is not just divided into parties, it is divided into factions, and at the moment there is no majority for any single course of action going forwards."

He says "no other governments are going to start negotiations with the UK on any new arrangement whilst the British continue to explore what exactly it is that they can get a parliamentary majority to agree to."

"We are rightly bound to the Good Friday agreement," he adds, noting that it is "particularly folly for a large faction of this House to continue for an argument that Britain should have a unilateral right to declare an end to that open border at a time of their choosing".

"This is why the backstop remains inevitable," Mr Clarke says.

On the backstop issue, Theresa May says "none of the alternative arrangements that have been floated in this House would command a majority."

It is utterly insoluble.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Christmas shopping in Churchill Square has just got a little cheaper for [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION]

 

[WATFORD zero]

That's a BIG if !!!! Polls suggest that remain would win by a similar margin that leave won by previously ...... hardly uniting.

I agree, but can't see TM's deal getting through, no matter how long she delays it, and we won't go 'no deal' (as I may have mentioned before ), so can't see what else could happen ? Possibly GE, but more likely another referendum

 

[Bold Seagull]

That's a BIG if !!!! Polls suggest that remain would win by a similar margin that leave won by previously ...... hardly uniting.

Referendums never unite. They always divide, are always divisive because they make a decision against your model of governance and representation. I vote for an MP who I can hold to account over their role in representing me in Parliament. A referendum vote has no such representation, it can only represent the will of the people at a single moment in time, based on a set context without further recourse. There is no Leave means no single market, no customs union, no this or that, because the only result was to leave. Anything further extrapolated from that is undemocratic in itself because there was no manifesto, no policies, no mandate within that vote to detail want leave meant. As unsavoury as it may seem, another referendum might be the only way to decide what to do because referendums don't give you any further detail other than the single question they ask.

 

[rippleman]

Time for no deal. Just get on with it. No deal at least gives us certainty and will almost certainly mean the EU comes back with a better offer at some point in the future.

That should have been our opening gambit. "We're off. Tara". Then we would have been in the driving seat.

And following the cancellation of the vote, the pound has nose-dived.