[Politics] Brexit

[Gwylan]

Ed won because unions wanted a someone they could manipulate, not due to political prowess.

Total rubbish. Ed changed the voting system to give the unions less power and more say to the members. Why on earth do you think the unions wanted someone who would reduce their influence?

 

[Blue3]

Capitalism is while not dead is certainly dying and has been since the early 1900s we are living in a very interesting times all sorts of ideas are being put forward and tried within the bounds of democracy and centralism has been the most successful of these world wide since the Second World War but times are changing centralism has failed to predict the 2008 crash and has not resolved the underlying issues which means future bigger crashes will become far more frequent until somthing new and completely different steps forward to govern.

Until then we are living through a storming time while centralism retreats into the background other previously tried and failed political ideas step into the frame this includes far right and left some scary while others are less so but ultimately all will fail.

The point is we need to face upto the fact Capitalisum is dying the question is how do we manage the change

 

[melias shoes]

You have indeed

You say 'no deal'.

I ask what would you do about all the things you would need to do to implement your fantasy

The negotiation of our new schedules and quotas with the WTO
The NI/Ireland Border
The New customs posts
The new Lorry Parks at all ports
The design, building and testing of the new IT systems to run the WTO tariffs and rules
The recruitment and training of the new staff to run the new systems/rules etc

And you say 'I don't know' or you run away, and expect someone else to clear up the shit you've left behind.

Well you are certainly following your leadership of Nige, Boris and JRM to the letter

I say perhaps if idiots like you and your remainers had accepted that we voted to leave the EU and got behind it instead of having a hissy fit perhaps we wouldn't have this shit deal. People like blair,clegg, sourbry etc refusing to acknowledge that the people voted to quit instead of going over to Brussels to try and stop the process and demanding a peoples vote. Which we've had by the way. This deal is a joke and it's going to fail. As was once said No Deal is better than a bad deal. Well it certainly better than that load of nonsense.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I say perhaps if idiots like you and your remainers had accepted that we voted to leave the EU and got behind it instead of having a hissy fit perhaps we wouldn't have this shit deal. .

The shit deal, whilst shit, respects the referendum result and, with it, your vote.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Blimey, May says there can be no compromise with Labour because "they are not acting in the national interest, they are putting their narrow party interest first." That's rich coming from a PM who has not put the interest of a small sub-section of her party above national interest. It's rich coming from a PM who chose not to involve any other party, in the slightest way, in the Brexit negotiations. And it's rich coming from a PM who has totally ignored the efforts of Labour politicians to work with May's fellow Tories to find a way out of the mess (see Boles and Kinnock's plans for an EFTA compromise, for example).

I sometimes wonder how May has the gall to face the public given the amount of lying that she comes out with.

...and of course she leads the organisation that created this whole mess in 2014/15 when Cameron decided, purely for the internal convenience of the Conservative Party, to hold a ludicrous referendum.

I have a strong stomach but when May talks about The National Interest, I feel queasy.

 

[lawros left foot]

I say perhaps if idiots like you and your remainers had accepted that we voted to leave the EU and got behind it instead of having a hissy fit perhaps we wouldn't have this shit deal. People like blair,clegg, sourbry etc refusing to acknowledge that the people voted to quit instead of going over to Brussels to try and stop the process and demanding a peoples vote. Which we've had by the way. This deal is a joke and it's going to fail. As was once said No Deal is better than a bad deal. Well it certainly better than that load of nonsense.

Yep, let’s blame the remoaners who never wanted leave anyway for such a shit outcome, and not the leavers who have consistently run away and his , instead of stepping up and sorting out the mess they have created.

It’s all part of democracy to be able to complain about decisions one doesn’t agree with, Farage and the rest of the self serving, swivel eyed loonies have been doing it for years.

 

[Blue3]

The thing is we live in the here and now as such the question for the here and now is Brexit, leaving the EU is going to hurt the econimony it the biggest exercise in self harm in the last 70 years

As Capitalisum fails who do we trust to administer the morphine Mrs May the nearest party leader to centralism apart from Vince Cable we have or do we go for a more right wing leader maybe somone like Boris who is not that right wing but is comedy gold Why we are on the subject Jeramy Corbun is no radical left wing ideologist he is a democratic socialist and his form of morphine administration is likely to be the least painful for the majority of the citizens of the U.K.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I say perhaps if idiots like you and your remainers had accepted that we voted to leave the EU and got behind it instead of having a hissy fit perhaps we wouldn't have this shit deal. People like blair,clegg, sourbry etc refusing to acknowledge that the people voted to quit instead of going over to Brussels to try and stop the process and demanding a peoples vote. Which we've had by the way. This deal is a joke and it's going to fail. As was once said No Deal is better than a bad deal. Well it certainly better than that load of nonsense.

While I understand why you are cross, I can't get your specific point. Lobbyists from all sides, including the ERG, have visited Brussels over the past two years so can you tell me how, in practical terms, Tony Blair and Nick Clegg have persuaded the EU to offer us a 'worse' deal?

By 'worse' you presumably mean a milder form of Brexit. Are you saying that the 27 would have allowed us a harder form of Brexit if certain lobbyists and the Palace of Westminster hadn't been involved, if a cabinet entirely populated by Brexiteers had been allowed to have their way without any parliamentary scrutiny and if Boris and David had been encouraged to issue the EU with a list of demands?

And are you saying that that would somehow be more democratic?

 

[CHAPPERS]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-60-lorry-limit-in-republic-in-no-deal-brexit

Northern Ireland will be allowed to operate just 60 lorries in the Republic of Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit, threatening disaster for businesses on both sides of the Irish border.

In a no-deal scenario, all commercial drivers in the UK would be reclassified as third-country operators requiring special permits to operate in the EU.

This spells chaos for the Dover-Calais route, which 11,000 trucks cross each day, and has special consequences in Ireland, where 13,000 cross-border journeys are made daily, transporting everything from bread to Guinness to cement.

The Department for Transport told the Freight Transport Association (FTA) this week that only 984 annual European Conference of Ministers of Transport (ECMT) permits would be issued for 2019.
Hauliers face lottery for permits in no-deal Brexit
Read more

It has warned hauliers that if the UK leaves the EU with no deal then they may need these permits to transport goods within the EU or EEA, but the Department for Infrastructure in Belfast has said just 60 permits will be issued in Northern Ireland.

ECMT permits are issued on a quota basis annually, with the deadline for 2019’s batch of permits set for 21 December.

“The delicate supply chain [the UK] economy relies upon will be in jeopardy,” said Sarah Louadi, the FTA’s European policy manager. As well as being worried about Dover-Calais, the FTA has also raised concerns about consequences on the island of Ireland.

Even though the British and Irish governments have pledged there will be no infrastructure on the border in a no-deal scenario, the FTA said no-deal requirements such as ECMT permits could choke off the supply of goods to manufacturers and farmers in Northern Ireland.

Seamus Leheny, its policy manager in Northern Ireland, said it would still be a problem despite the lack of checkpoints. “You can’t drive across the border without a permit because it would mean you are uninsured and unlicensed. This is a major legal issue,” he said. “If we just have 60 drivers who can operate it means a lot of factory processing will just grind to a halt.”


He pointed out that it was not just agriculture or food production that would be hit but also construction. The Quarry Products Association confirmed that 80% of the cement used in Northern Ireland came from the Republic.

Leheny said: “Getting a permit will be a lottery, and if having a permit becomes a unique selling point for hauliers it will be lights out for those that don’t get them.”

The FTA has been assured by the Department for Infrastructure in Northern Ireland that there will be an exemption on the island of Ireland in a no-deal scenario.

But it said it understood that no such bilateral deal existed. Even if there was an exemption for the island of Ireland, it would mean drivers who went through the UK or Dublin and on to the continent would still be restricted.

But Liam Fox doesn't seem to think it will be that bad, so that's alright then.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I say perhaps if idiots like you and your remainers had accepted that we voted to leave the EU and got behind it instead of having a hissy fit perhaps we wouldn't have this shit deal. People like blair,clegg, sourbry etc refusing to acknowledge that the people voted to quit instead of going over to Brussels to try and stop the process and demanding a peoples vote. Which we've had by the way. This deal is a joke and it's going to fail. As was once said No Deal is better than a bad deal. Well it certainly better than that load of nonsense.

U OK Hun?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I say perhaps if idiots like you and your remainers had accepted that we voted to leave the EU and got behind it instead of having a hissy fit perhaps we wouldn't have this shit deal. People like blair,clegg, sourbry etc refusing to acknowledge that the people voted to quit instead of going over to Brussels to try and stop the process and demanding a peoples vote. Which we've had by the way. This deal is a joke and it's going to fail. As was once said No Deal is better than a bad deal. Well it certainly better than that load of nonsense.

But you have always said you wanted 'no deal' so why are you upset about the deal May has negotiated ? Besides which, do you really believe that if we had all waved flags and stood behind her shouting across the channel, that the EU would have reneged on it's basic principles and let us cherry pick what we wanted ?

I am sorry, but you didn't understand what you were voting for, you didn't understand the options available, you got stitched up like a kipper by a bunch of Charlatans and you still can't see it.

So, once again, if you believe 'no deal' is the way to go, what should we do about

The negotiation of our new schedules and quotas with the WTO
The NI/Ireland Border
The New customs posts
The new Lorry Parks at all ports
The design, building and testing of the new IT systems to run the WTO tariffs and rules
The recruitment and training of the new staff to run the new systems/rules etc

You have no answers because you still don't understand and yet have the front to call anyone who points this out to you 'an idiot'. You are the very reason we are now in the middle of this complete clusterf***.

The least you could do is take some responsibility for your actions rather than try and blame everyone and everything else. But just like every other Brexiteer on here, in parliament and on the campaign, you will run away and expect everyone else to clear up the shit you have caused.

 

[daveinplzen]

Yep, let’s blame the remoaners who never wanted leave anyway for such a shit outcome, and not the leavers who have consistently run away and his , instead of stepping up and sorting out the mess they have created.

It’s all part of democracy to be able to complain about decisions one doesn’t agree with, Farage and the rest of the self serving, swivel eyed loonies have been doing it for years.

I think this soft brexit will get passed through parliament, most brexiteers in parliament are spineless chancers and will save their jobs instead

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Yep, let’s blame the remoaners who never wanted leave anyway for such a shit outcome, and not the leavers who have consistently run away and his , instead of stepping up and sorting out the mess they have created.

It’s all part of democracy to be able to complain about decisions one doesn’t agree with, Farage and the rest of the self serving, swivel eyed loonies have been doing it for years.

As a deeply unhelpful remoaner myself, Brexit is not in my name, and frankly I wouldn't lift a finger to facilitate it.

Let those that want it put in the effort.

 

[beorhthelm]

The point is we need to face upto the fact Capitalisum is dying the question is how do we manage the change

news to the markets and all the economies still growing.

 

[melias shoes]

But you have always said you wanted 'no deal' so why are you upset about the deal May has negotiated ? Besides which, do you really believe that if we had all waved flags and stood behind her shouting across the channel, that the EU would have reneged on it's basic principles and let us cherry pick what we wanted ?

I am sorry, but you didn't understand what you were voting for, you didn't understand the options available, you got stitched up like a kipper by a bunch of Charlatans and you still can't see it.

So, once again, if you believe 'no deal' is the way to go, what should we do about

The negotiation of our new schedules and quotas with the WTO
The NI/Ireland Border
The New customs posts
The new Lorry Parks at all ports
The design, building and testing of the new IT systems to run the WTO tariffs and rules
The recruitment and training of the new staff to run the new systems/rules etc

You have no answers because you still don't understand and yet have the front to call anyone who points this out to you 'an idiot'. You are the very reason we are now in the middle of this complete clusterf***.

The least you could do is take some responsibility for your actions rather than try and blame everyone and everything else. But just like every other Brexiteer on here, in parliament and on the campaign, you will run away and expect everyone else to clear up the shit you have caused.

I'm not upset over May's deal. I said it's shit.

 

[melias shoes]

The shit deal, whilst shit, respects the referendum result and, with it, your vote.

No it doesn't. I voted to leave completely just like most leave voters if not all.

 

[CHAPPERS]

No it doesn't. I voted to leave completely just like most leave voters if not all.

What does Leave completely mean? WTO?

 

[WATFORD zero]

No it doesn't. I voted to leave completely just like most leave voters if not all.

So you still have no idea what your 'no deal' that you claim you want entails or how it is going to work then.
If you have no understanding of what it is you are asking for, how the f*** can you know it's what you want

I really can't believe I'm having this conversation, it's like someone has slipped something into my drink

 

[daveinplzen]

Brexiteers voted for their emotions, not the country.

 

[melias shoes]

So you still have no idea what your 'no deal' that you claim you want entails or how it is going to work then.
If you have no understanding of what it is you are asking for, how the f*** can you know it's what you want

I really can't believe I'm having this conversation, it's like someone has slipped something into my drink

Enjoy your drink.
Now I'm off to worry about things far more important than Brexit. Enjoy your afternoon.