Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
Heavenly stuff. Less subtle than 2p's unceasing efforts on behalf of the Remain cause but great fun nevertheless.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Heavenly stuff. Less subtle than 2p's unceasing efforts on behalf of the Remain cause but great fun nevertheless.
I think you will find that it is the UK economy that acts as a quota
Unless employment is good and requires EU workers, then they will find it hard to gain work or be self employed in order to become resident. EU citizens cannot just turn up and be on the dole
When the UK economy contracts as part of the natural cycle, then we will have less need for EU workers.
If they an EU citizen does not meet the EU definition i.e not in work or self employed then they can be forcibly removed by HO. The UK choosing not to have sufficient border staff decided that it did not want to remove those that did not have a job etc.
This taking back control of our borders was always a red herring.
Unless employment is good and requires EU workers, then they will find it hard to gain work or be self employed in order to become resident. EU citizens cannot just turn up and be on the dole
When the UK economy contracts as part of the natural cycle, then we will have less need for EU workers.
If they an EU citizen does not meet the EU definition i.e not in work or self employed then they can be forcibly removed by HO. The UK choosing not to have sufficient border staff decided that it did not want to remove those that did not have a job etc.
This taking back control of our borders was always a red herring.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
That's dated 2004 so will be out of date as its pre-Lisbon treaty.
Check out the Lisbon treaty articles 45-55.
Two Professors
Two Mad Professors
I see the EU Untouchables are getting away with their corrupt ways again.What a bunch of crooks.Commit crimes,but get away with no punishment,yet again.Come on you EU apologists,tell us why this is acceptable and democratic!
How much would our economy need to contract and our currency need to devalue against say the Bulgarian Lev to become a disincentive for an unskilled worker from Bulgaria to come and work here in England on our minimum wage doing a similar job they might back home ?
Our minimum wage is a monthly minimum of 1400 Euro whilst Bulgaria is currently 260.76 Euro per month, whilst the exchange rates between what the Bulgarian Lev and Pound Sterling has largely remained unchanged.
So where exactly is this economic 'brake' which will somehow act as an automatic quota for the UK come from ?
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pastafarian
Well-known member
Its from directive 2004/38/EC on citizens rights which remains in force, Lisbon did not repeal it.
You can check the status of a Directive at eur-lex
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32004L0038
pastafarian
Well-known member
Butch Willykins
Well-known member
You haven't watched the video have you.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
Like most things on Brexit, it is with austerity and the cutbacks to enforcement, administration and the fact we wont be sealing ourselves off from the outside world a la North Korea, but you seem to enjoy fantasies so carry on with that one.
pastafarian
Well-known member
Not in work is not a EU definition that results in removal, jobseekers have rights as do those economically inactive.
You cannot be removed for simply not being in work.It is a myth.
A jobseeker cannot be expelled if they are continuing to seek employment and have a genuine chance of obtaining it.
Article 14 Directive 2004/38/EC on Citizens Rights
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32004L0038
The real red herring here is that expulsions of EU unemployed would have mitigated the mass migration of EU citizens,(workers, their families and jobseekers) to the extent that the argument for taking back control of our EU borders becomes irrelevant and itself a red herring..
This is a bit of a straw man argument. I don't think anybody said that immigration would be reduced as a result of leaving the EU. II remember Farage in one of the televised debates being very specific about the fact that fewer immigrants from the EU would mean more immigrants from Commonwealth countries. And I don't really see what illegal immigration has to do with anything - we had illegal immigrants to the country well before we joined the EU and will continue to have after Brexit.
Personally, I had no problem with free EU migration to this country (it cut both ways, we were free to move too - and sounded like a fair arrangement to me) but I know some people did. But no-one suggested that the removal of the rights of EU citizens to move here would reduce total immigration - we need people to fill the job vacancies.
I've no idea what Max Hastings is going on about in that piece, sounds like he's losing the plot a bit.
pastafarian
Well-known member
Its almost as though there is a draft document out there(130 pages long ..cough) where the agreed text at negotiations level is highlighted in a different way to the text that is still ongoing, that would allow both Mr Bernier and Mr Verhofstadt to say with confidence, at different times, that 80% was agreed.
If only the existence of this document could be searched via something like google.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
Farage did mention Commonwealth countries as well as standing in front of his poster of brown people, but he did also mention reducing annual net migration to the 50,000 mark, as well as The Australian points system advocated by the official Leave campaign and all the rest of it etc.
Just a cursory Google here shows Vote Leave talking in regards to there being '475,000 live births to mothers from other EU countries between 2005 and 2014, the equivalent of adding a city the size of Manchester to the population. The cost of providing NHS services to those families could be over £1.33bn. If we remain in the EU, the NHS will be put under more and more pressure and the A&E crisis will get even worse.'
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_immigration.html
The piece in full by Sir Max Hastings if you read it is actually quite balanced and reasonable - he wasn't taking a side and criticised George Osbourne for a response to him 2 years ago in regards to ECHR for example and points out, that in his opinion as yours, modern immigration issues wont be solved by Brexit, despite the 'take back control of our borders' & 'tens of thousands' net migration policy targets that keep being missed spectacularly, using non-EU net migration as an example of that.
Only £1.60 down the newsagent to non-subscribers.
nicko31
Well-known member
Been away for a month, I has admit its been nice to be away from the UK ongoing Brexit tantrum that is going nowhere.
The politicians of the 2 main parties have completely failed us, a deal is looking less and less likely.
If we are going to go off a cliff, the people must decide Britain's fate. The choice...
NO DEAL
or
NO BREXIT
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
[tweet]1036947735319130112[/tweet]
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
[tweet]1036947735319130112[/tweet]
But nobody is going to be deported so why you getting stressed about it.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Tell that to the Windrush generation.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
That's a completely separate issue.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
I'm sure Settled Status will be just fine and The Home Office will process all 3 million or so EU citizens living here with no problems for anyone.
Just like happened for the EU citizens sent deportation letters last year by the Home Office - https://news.sky.com/story/home-off...etters-sent-to-100-eu-citizens-in-uk-11001868
Or the 6 year old British boy currently stranded abroad because The Home Office have now decided he should never have been given the British passport he left the UK on - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...born-boy-left-stranded-stateless-home-office/
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Politicians, I wouldn't trust any of them to make a cup of tea.