[Politics] Brexit

[The Clamp]

Did you just assume gender?


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Yes.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You bog standard response is deflection and not answering. Again, you refuse to answer the question about the EU controlling the ROI to UK border.

Same as when I challenged you on whether Remainers or Leavers were running the negotiations. Deflection as you can’t answer.

You are the weakest link

Let's go back to the beginning of the conversation then and see where it got deflected

I've always said we don't have time to implement a WTO 'no deal'

Still believe that we can trade under WTO rules and tariffs with no borders or customs ?

Before you embarrass yourself further - have a little listen to someone experienced in international trade deals

So before you deflect into discussions about whose responsibility those borders are

Do you still believe that we can trade under WTO rules and tariffs with no borders or customs ?

 

[Baker lite]

Yes.

UNACCEPTABLE.



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[larus]

It looks like he cuts and pastes a lot of stuff but he doesn't seem to understand it. He's not willing to listen people trying to educate him either which is just ignorant.

I see you’re too scared to engage directly with me Nibble. Fed up of being made to look stupid and then having to run off crying that “He’s so nasty”. Your problem is you want to slag others off and use offensive language, but then take humbridge when it’s done back to you.

I don’t need losers like you (which is what I think of you from your posts) trying to ‘educate’ me. You are too stupid to even understand that other people may be intelligent and reach different viewpoints to you. For example, Mr Dyson thinks we’ll be more successful outside of the EU - are you going to say that you (nibble) know more than him?

 

[The Clamp]

UNACCEPTABLE.



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To whom?

 

[The Clamp]

I see you’re too scared to engage directly with me Nibble. Fed up of being made to look stupid and then having to run off crying that “He’s so nasty”. Your problem is you want to slag others off and use offensive language, but then take humbridge when it’s done back to you.

I don’t need losers like you (which is what I think of you from your posts) trying to ‘educate’ me. You are too stupid to even understand that other people may be intelligent and reach different viewpoints to you. For example, Mr Dyson thinks we’ll be more successful outside of the EU - are you going to say that you (nibble) know more than him?

I don't engage directly with you often because I find you a rather unpleasant and aggressive individual.

P.S It's umbridge.

 

[Baker lite]

To whom?

It’s unacceptable to Me that you think you have the right to assume gender,I’m offended.


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[The Clamp]

It’s unacceptable to Me that you think you have the right to assume gender,I’m offended.


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I'll live with it.

 

[Berty23]

Lets just say money talks and the EU need the 39Billion divorce bill. A deal will be sorted

The total gdp of the EU countries is about 15 trillion dollars. This means that the 39 billion is about 0.35% of total EU27. For one year. That is basically a rounding error in history. Do you really think the EU will be held to ransom over what is a pretty insignificant sum as a one off payment?

39 billion is obviously a hell of a lot of money to you and I, but to a economic super power like the EU it really isn’t. The sooner people realise that the better.

As a point of comparison it is like someone who earns 100k a year being held to ransom over 350 quid. Do you really think that would happen? Be serious with your answer.

 

[larus]

Let's go back to the beginning of the conversation then and see where it got deflected



So do you still believe that we can trade under WTO rules and tariffs with no borders or customs ?

The problem from the remainers is they can’t differentiate between Tariffs and Regulations. For example, the Atomic Inductry was panicking last year, but now is much more relaxed.


You also keep going on about WTO as if it needs to be sorted BEFORE we leave. IT DOESN’T - FACT.

Any case brought to the WTO takes YEARS to go though. In that time, we will have negotiated deals and sorted the major issues.


From https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/08/24/atomic-success-story-amid-doomsday-chatter-brexit/


The other, forgotten Brexit is going like clockwork. Preparations for ‘Brexatom’ are a model of national focus and efficiency.

We can now be fairly confident that Britain’s nuclear industry and power plants will not face a cliff-edge disaster even if there is no deal with the EU.

The Government’s ‘technical notice’ on civil nuclear regulation - released in the avalanche of ‘doomsday’ scenarios - is almost reassuring.

A year ago, experts were alarmed over what would happen when Britain left the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom), our super-regulator. It manages all nuclear materials in the EU, carries out inspections, and oversees all supply.

The UK ceded control over its nuclear industry to Euratom when the country joined the EU, just as it ceded treaty control over trade deals to the Commission.

Many feared Britain would be thrown into legal limbo, with no treaty access to nuclear fuel for reactors, endangering 20pc of our power generation. It would be outside the international safeguards regime that makes nuclear business possible.

They fretted that Britain’s industrial eco-system of 65,000 hi-tech, well-paid jobs in the nuclear supply-chain - such as Urenco’s centrifuge and uranium enrichment operations in Chester - might spiral into crisis.

Some thought it might take years to negotiate 18 fresh treaties with other nuclear states, and that we would be held hostage to political demands. Diplomacy is often painfully slow in this highly-regulated sphere.


Yet one by one the obstacles are falling away. The UK Nuclear Industry Association - still in despair just months ago - says the Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) has moved with impressive speed, beefing up its Brexatom nuclear team from two to 45 staff. The sense of dread is fading.

“We are an oasis of calm in a way,” said Peter Haslam, the group’s policy chief.

“There are still a lot of details to work out, and there is not much time left. We don’t know what is going to happen on import and export licencing. But BEIS has been taking this very seriously, and we’re broadly on the same page now,” he said.

Urenco’s Brexit working group - an Anglo-Dutch-German cast - said it is now broadly satisfied. “We acknowledge the progress made by the UK Government. We have a detailed plan in place. With two sites in mainland Europe, one in the UK and one in the USA, we will be able to continue offering security of supply to our customers from inside and outside of the EU,” it said.

Britain has restored its sovereign accreditation with the International Atomic Energy Agency, the world regulator in Vienna. The IAEA will take over the role of oversight and inspections from Euratom.

The country has already signed a ‘nuclear cooperation agreement’ with the US, securing Atlantic trade in fissile materials. It is in close talks with the three other key players that require such gold-standard accords: Japan, Canada, and Australia.

Euratom
Nuclear reactors provide a fifth of UK electricity. They are a highly-reliable source of base load power CREDIT: BEIS
Some Brexiteers might look wistfully at this example of dispatch and national confidence, and ask whether it might not have been better to have reclaimed our schedules at the World Trade Organisation from the outset in the same way. We could have teed up comparable trade accords with the US and others rather than clinging to de facto membership of the EU single market and customs union.

That would have increased the UK’s bargaining position in pushing for a ‘Canada plus’ trade deal based on mutual recognition (not the EU rulebook) and covering services (now denied).

By March, Britain will have replicated most of the international arrangements needed to replace Euratom, whatever happens over Brexit. These deals will kick in from Day One. There will be no roll-over crisis for a large part of our nuclear trade. “This will ensure that civil nuclear trade can continue unimpeded,” said the technical notice.

The relevant laws have been passed enabling the UK Office for Nuclear Regulation (ONR) to take over in harness with the IAEA in March. After a few glitches, the staff have been hired. The ONR says it can cope even if talks with the EU break down totally at the last moment.

Dame Sue Ion, former chief of the Nuclear Innovation and Research Advisory Board, feared a disastrous nuclear rupture a year ago. Today she is sanguine. British and EU specialists have been working behind the scenes to avert disruption. “The Brexatom parts of the negotiation have been pretty much agreed by both sides in terms of a negotiated final deal,” she said.


The industry still faces “business risks” over licencing and contracts. Nuclear trade could still be caught up in any general chaos at the ports. There could still be major damage to joint research, hitting the nuclear fusion operations at Culham.

Yet Dame Sue said key partners in Europe view the UK as a crucial player in fission and fusion research. She thinks that much of the existing structure will survive even if there is no withdrawal agreement. There are a host of interlocking ties that transcend politics.

“Our traditional collaborations with countries both inside and outside the EU would continue - and new ones would be struck - whatever the Brexit outcome,” she said.

Newspaper headlines have honed in on the threat to medical isotopes used for a million scans, diagnoses, and cancer treatments each year in British hospitals. These isotopes decay very fast, akin to perishable foods. They cannot be stockpiled. Over 80pc are imported, some from the US, South Africa, Australia, and Russia, but most come through the channel tunnel from Europe.

Dr Chaand Nagpaul, head of the British Medical Association, reacted with outrage this week to the Brexit technical notices. “To avoid chaos at the border, the Government is now instructing suppliers to make arrangements to fly radioisotopes and medicines with a short shelf life into the UK - no one voted for this situation,” he said.


“It is clear to the BMA that Brexit will have a catastrophic impact for patients, the health workforce, services and the nation’s health,” he said. This sort of language is clearly straying into politics, some would say trivialising the enormous constitutional issues at stake as the UK reasserts national independence in very difficult circumstances.

One expert in the nuclear industry told The Telegraph that such alarmism over medical isotopes and nuclear fuel supplies is “just winding people up”. It is not vastly more expensive to fly in isotopes, should that be necessary to avoid cross-channel delays in the first few days or weeks of Brexit. Roughly 20pc are flown in today (though the Netherlands prohibits this).

Dr John Buscombe, president of the British Nuclear Medicine Society, said in testimony to the House of Lords that a break in supply would be awkward but solutions could be found. “Everything is possible. Everything is achievable,” he said.

There is near universal agreement that Euratom is an excellent organisation, one of the great successes of the EU extended family (though technically separate). Nobody wants to leave it. However, the EU’s legal services say Brexatom is obligatory since the agency is woven into the EU treaties.

Britain is instead seeking an intimate nuclear cooperation agreement with Euratom that preserves the core of the relationship. The key players on the EU side are keen to reciprocate. The UK is not a minor adjunct in this field. It a central pillar of the Euratom structure. It is the only big EU state that is building fresh nuclear reactors (Italy has none, and Germany is winding down) and is a nuclear weapons power.

The UK is not a minor adjunct in this field. It a central pillar of the Euratom structure.
In essence it comes down to Franco-British cooperation, much as in defence, where we are also the two lead players. It would take an act of strategic vandalism by Brussels to precipitate a nuclear showdown with Britain. The French would not permit it in any case.

So yes, there is much to worry about in a no-deal scenario, but we can thankfully strike the nuclear industry and power security off the apocalypse list.

 

[pastafarian]

You bog standard response is deflection and not answering. Again, you refuse to answer the question about the EU controlling the ROI to UK border.

Same as when I challenged you on whether Remainers or Leavers were running the negotiations. Deflection as you can’t answer.

You are the weakest link

Think clamp just summed watford up

It looks like he cuts and pastes a lot of stuff but he doesn't seem to understand it. He's not willing to listen people trying to educate him either which is just ignorant.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The problem from the remainers is they can’t differentiate between Tariffs and Regulations. For example, the Atomic Inductry was panicking last year, but now is much more relaxed.


You also keep going on about WTO as if it needs to be sorted BEFORE we leave. IT DOESN’T - FACT.

Any case brought to the WTO takes YEARS to go though. In that time, we will have negotiated deals and sorted the major issues.


From https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/08/24/atomic-success-story-amid-doomsday-chatter-brexit/


The other, forgotten Brexit is going like clockwork. Preparations for ‘Brexatom’ are a model of national focus and efficiency.

We can now be fairly confident that Britain’s nuclear industry and power plants will not face a cliff-edge disaster even if there is no deal with the EU.

The Government’s ‘technical notice’ on civil nuclear regulation - released in the avalanche of ‘doomsday’ scenarios - is almost reassuring.

A year ago, experts were alarmed over what would happen when Britain left the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom), our super-regulator. It manages all nuclear materials in the EU, carries out inspections, and oversees all supply.

The UK ceded control over its nuclear industry to Euratom when the country joined the EU, just as it ceded treaty control over trade deals to the Commission.

Many feared Britain would be thrown into legal limbo, with no treaty access to nuclear fuel for reactors, endangering 20pc of our power generation. It would be outside the international safeguards regime that makes nuclear business possible.

They fretted that Britain’s industrial eco-system of 65,000 hi-tech, well-paid jobs in the nuclear supply-chain - such as Urenco’s centrifuge and uranium enrichment operations in Chester - might spiral into crisis.

Some thought it might take years to negotiate 18 fresh treaties with other nuclear states, and that we would be held hostage to political demands. Diplomacy is often painfully slow in this highly-regulated sphere.


Yet one by one the obstacles are falling away. The UK Nuclear Industry Association - still in despair just months ago - says the Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) has moved with impressive speed, beefing up its Brexatom nuclear team from two to 45 staff. The sense of dread is fading.

“We are an oasis of calm in a way,” said Peter Haslam, the group’s policy chief.

“There are still a lot of details to work out, and there is not much time left. We don’t know what is going to happen on import and export licencing. But BEIS has been taking this very seriously, and we’re broadly on the same page now,” he said.

Urenco’s Brexit working group - an Anglo-Dutch-German cast - said it is now broadly satisfied. “We acknowledge the progress made by the UK Government. We have a detailed plan in place. With two sites in mainland Europe, one in the UK and one in the USA, we will be able to continue offering security of supply to our customers from inside and outside of the EU,” it said.

Britain has restored its sovereign accreditation with the International Atomic Energy Agency, the world regulator in Vienna. The IAEA will take over the role of oversight and inspections from Euratom.

The country has already signed a ‘nuclear cooperation agreement’ with the US, securing Atlantic trade in fissile materials. It is in close talks with the three other key players that require such gold-standard accords: Japan, Canada, and Australia.

Euratom
Nuclear reactors provide a fifth of UK electricity. They are a highly-reliable source of base load power CREDIT: BEIS
Some Brexiteers might look wistfully at this example of dispatch and national confidence, and ask whether it might not have been better to have reclaimed our schedules at the World Trade Organisation from the outset in the same way. We could have teed up comparable trade accords with the US and others rather than clinging to de facto membership of the EU single market and customs union.

That would have increased the UK’s bargaining position in pushing for a ‘Canada plus’ trade deal based on mutual recognition (not the EU rulebook) and covering services (now denied).

By March, Britain will have replicated most of the international arrangements needed to replace Euratom, whatever happens over Brexit. These deals will kick in from Day One. There will be no roll-over crisis for a large part of our nuclear trade. “This will ensure that civil nuclear trade can continue unimpeded,” said the technical notice.

The relevant laws have been passed enabling the UK Office for Nuclear Regulation (ONR) to take over in harness with the IAEA in March. After a few glitches, the staff have been hired. The ONR says it can cope even if talks with the EU break down totally at the last moment.

Dame Sue Ion, former chief of the Nuclear Innovation and Research Advisory Board, feared a disastrous nuclear rupture a year ago. Today she is sanguine. British and EU specialists have been working behind the scenes to avert disruption. “The Brexatom parts of the negotiation have been pretty much agreed by both sides in terms of a negotiated final deal,” she said.


The industry still faces “business risks” over licencing and contracts. Nuclear trade could still be caught up in any general chaos at the ports. There could still be major damage to joint research, hitting the nuclear fusion operations at Culham.

Yet Dame Sue said key partners in Europe view the UK as a crucial player in fission and fusion research. She thinks that much of the existing structure will survive even if there is no withdrawal agreement. There are a host of interlocking ties that transcend politics.

“Our traditional collaborations with countries both inside and outside the EU would continue - and new ones would be struck - whatever the Brexit outcome,” she said.

Newspaper headlines have honed in on the threat to medical isotopes used for a million scans, diagnoses, and cancer treatments each year in British hospitals. These isotopes decay very fast, akin to perishable foods. They cannot be stockpiled. Over 80pc are imported, some from the US, South Africa, Australia, and Russia, but most come through the channel tunnel from Europe.

Dr Chaand Nagpaul, head of the British Medical Association, reacted with outrage this week to the Brexit technical notices. “To avoid chaos at the border, the Government is now instructing suppliers to make arrangements to fly radioisotopes and medicines with a short shelf life into the UK - no one voted for this situation,” he said.


“It is clear to the BMA that Brexit will have a catastrophic impact for patients, the health workforce, services and the nation’s health,” he said. This sort of language is clearly straying into politics, some would say trivialising the enormous constitutional issues at stake as the UK reasserts national independence in very difficult circumstances.

One expert in the nuclear industry told The Telegraph that such alarmism over medical isotopes and nuclear fuel supplies is “just winding people up”. It is not vastly more expensive to fly in isotopes, should that be necessary to avoid cross-channel delays in the first few days or weeks of Brexit. Roughly 20pc are flown in today (though the Netherlands prohibits this).

Dr John Buscombe, president of the British Nuclear Medicine Society, said in testimony to the House of Lords that a break in supply would be awkward but solutions could be found. “Everything is possible. Everything is achievable,” he said.

There is near universal agreement that Euratom is an excellent organisation, one of the great successes of the EU extended family (though technically separate). Nobody wants to leave it. However, the EU’s legal services say Brexatom is obligatory since the agency is woven into the EU treaties.

Britain is instead seeking an intimate nuclear cooperation agreement with Euratom that preserves the core of the relationship. The key players on the EU side are keen to reciprocate. The UK is not a minor adjunct in this field. It a central pillar of the Euratom structure. It is the only big EU state that is building fresh nuclear reactors (Italy has none, and Germany is winding down) and is a nuclear weapons power.

The UK is not a minor adjunct in this field. It a central pillar of the Euratom structure.
In essence it comes down to Franco-British cooperation, much as in defence, where we are also the two lead players. It would take an act of strategic vandalism by Brussels to precipitate a nuclear showdown with Britain. The French would not permit it in any case.

So yes, there is much to worry about in a no-deal scenario, but we can thankfully strike the nuclear industry and power security off the apocalypse list.

More deflection (and more cutting and pasting to prove [MENTION=33848]The Clamp[/MENTION] right)

So do you still believe that we can trade under WTO rules and tariffs with no borders or customs ?

 

[larus]

I don't engage directly with you often because I find you a rather unpleasant and aggressive individual.

P.S It's umbridge.

Haha, bloody auto-correct. Need to proof read more.

And I think exactly the same about you. You like to throw around insults like “Mental, Thick, Racist” and deflect from direct questions which are uncomfortable to answer.

 

[larus]

More deflection

So do you still believe that we can trade under WTO rules and tariffs with no borders or customs ?

More deflection. Still believe we are responsible for the ROI border to the UK?

 

[The Clamp]

Haha, bloody auto-correct. Need to proof read more.

And I think exactly the same about you. You like to throw around insults like “Mental, Thick, Racist” and deflect from direct questions which are uncomfortable to answer.

I can't recall you asking me a direct question, certainly not one without an insult attached. In fact I cannot recall you engaging with anyone on the remain side without also insulting them. Which is another reason I avoid engaging with you.

 

[larus]

I can't recall you asking me a direct question, certainly not one without an insult attached. In fact I cannot recall you engaging with anyone on the remain side without also insulting them. Which is another reason I avoid engaging with you.

Hmm, how about I asked who on the leave side was directly involved with the negotiations. I asked more than once an you never answered.

BTW, David Davis was bypassed by TM with Olly Robbins and Rabb is only involved in the preparation for No Deal. The negotiations are being handled by Robbins with control from TM.

Still waiting - tick, tock.

Anyway, out of here now. Long day so that’s my lot.

Just stop worrying - Brexit will be cushty

 

[WATFORD zero]

More deflection. Still believe we are responsible for the ROI border to the UK?

You have been maintaining all along that we didn't need borders or customs to implement 'no deal'.

Unless you have done a U-turn, your question about the responsibility of a non-existing border could be seen as pointless

So do you still believe that we can trade under WTO rules and tariffs with no borders or customs ?

(It's just that 1.5 hrs ago you stated that we could)

 

[portslade seagull]

39Billion is chicken feed compared to what's at stake with the trade deals.

Try telling Barnier and Juncker that. They don't think so, keeps Juncker in drink fo a few more yrs

 

[The Clamp]

Hmm, how about I asked who on the leave side was directly involved with the negotiations. I asked more than once an you never answered.

BTW, David Davis was bypassed by TM with Olly Robbins and Rabb is only involved in the preparation for No Deal. The negotiations are being handled by Robbins with control from TM.

Still waiting - tick, tock.

I think you have me confused with another poster. You never asked me that question. If you did I don't recall.

 

[Baker lite]

The total gdp of the EU countries is about 15 trillion dollars. This means that the 39 billion is about 0.35% of total EU27. For one year. That is basically a rounding error in history. Do you really think the EU will be held to ransom over what is a pretty insignificant sum as a one off payment?

39 billion is obviously a hell of a lot of money to you and I, but to a economic super power like the EU it really isn’t. The sooner people realise that the better.

As a point of comparison it is like someone who earns 100k a year being held to ransom over 350 quid. Do you really think that would happen? Be serious with your answer.

Does that figure include the Uk?


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