[Politics] Brexit

[larus]

I assume that you are talking about a 'no deal' exit.

1. You cannot implement WTO rules and tariffs if you don't have borders or customs. How the hell do you collect our tariffs with no borders or customs ?

2. I would guess that after a period of disruption with the political will, adjustments to some new reality could be achieved if the politicians weren't at war trying to save their skins.

3.We currently operate under WTO rules as part of the EU. Are you suggesting that we commit to maintaining full regulatory alignment with the EU for all our new WTO relationships ?

You obviously think you know about the way WTO operates and you will not accept me telling you that you are wrong. Listen to the clip I sent you as it would stop you asking some of these questions

You keep saying you can’t operate WTO rules with no border.

So, first point:
WTO rules allow for no border infrastructure if there are political reasons. I keep telling you this but you seem to ignore.

If you disagree with the above, then this applies.

If we trade with the EU over the ROI/NI border, then BOTH sides are trading on WTO rules. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the ROI/EU to ensure that any activity between the EU and the UK meets WTO rules. But the EU have already stated that they won’t install any physical structures there. Therefore, the EU will be in breach of WTO rules.

You keep on about the UK, but a border is a 2 way thing. If the EU don’t implement a physical border, then they will be in breach of WTO rules according to you.

So please explain that one to me.

 

[pastafarian]

In a nutshell "Remainers are mental".

Ah,the old misquote card, played alongside the soon to be played inevitable victim card no doubt.
same old nibble

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Tell you what, I will answer your question, and then I will ask you a question and see if you actually have the courage to answer.

So, my answer.

Yes I do. I’m not saying there won’t be disruption, and some of this disruption will be caused by spite/self-preservation from the EU as they know that if we are seen to be successful outside of the EU, then this will cause other countries enduring hardship to question if they would be better outside. There will be short-term and medium term impacts, but this is not something which can be viewed over a timescale of weeks and months, and should be viewed over years (I’m not saying the initial impacts will last years as that clearly not the case).

So, my question for you (apologies, it’s really 2 questions).

Do you accept that, after a period of disruption, that people/companies/government will adjust to the new reality and work out solutions to the issues, notwithstanding that some will be more complex than others to resolve?

Also, do you accept that as we are starting from a position of regulatory alignment, that recognising each other’s standards should be easy (and if not recognised, then this proves intent to cause issues)?

The minute we leave the EU we will have to negotiate 164 different trade deals. Countries that already have trade deals with the EU and 27 different countries are going to think about whether they trade with one solitary country or 27 united countries.
Canada took 7 years to sort out their trade deal and you think we can work out the details for a plan in 11 weeks.

The EU aren't doing anything out of spite. They don't have to do anything. We are the ones who are walking out of their club, so they don't need to do anything. They aren't going to change anything to suit us, Why should they?
The deal we have to agree is to sort out what we pay for MEPs pensions, and other responsibilities that come our way, to make sure everything in the divorce bill is finalised.

 

[The Clamp]

Are Leavers thicker than Remainers? The short answer is: yes. At least, on average. That’s according to a paper analysing voters on both sides of the godawful Brexit referendum, which says that: ‘When compared with Remain voters, Leave voters displayed significantly lower levels of numeracy, reasoning and appeared more reliant on impulsive ‘System 1’ thinking.’

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/remain-supporters-brighter-brexit-backers/

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You keep saying you can’t operate WTO rules with no border.

So, first point:
WTO rules allow for no border infrastructure if there are political reasons. I keep telling you this but you seem to ignore.

If you disagree with the above, then this applies.

If we trade with the EU over the ROI/NI border, then BOTH sides are trading on WTO rules. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the ROI/EU to ensure that any activity between the EU and the UK meets WTO rules. But the EU have already stated that they won’t install any physical structures there. Therefore, the EU will be in breach of WTO rules.

You keep on about the UK, but a border is a 2 way thing. If the EU don’t implement a physical border, then they will be in breach of WTO rules according to you.

So please explain that one to me.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...the-options-for-the-irish-border-after-brexit

 

[Baker lite]

Are Leavers thicker than Remainers? The short answer is: yes. At least, on average. That’s according to a paper analysing voters on both sides of the godawful Brexit referendum, which says that: ‘When compared with Remain voters, Leave voters displayed significantly lower levels of numeracy, reasoning and appeared more reliant on impulsive ‘System 1’ thinking.’

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/remain-supporters-brighter-brexit-backers/

Give Me strength.


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[portslade seagull]

Hmm. Making out that if you voted remain you are mentally ill. Rather sinister in fact. Luckily most rational people will see through these ridiculous and offensive accusations. It's all very Trump when he tries to rubbish his critics.

Maybe if people from both sides stopped the petty name calling this wouldn't be an issue. sadly this was all started by remainers very early on

 

[WATFORD zero]

You keep saying you can’t operate WTO rules with no border.

So, first point:
WTO rules allow for no border infrastructure if there are political reasons. I keep telling you this but you seem to ignore.

If you disagree with the above, then this applies.

If we trade with the EU over the ROI/NI border, then BOTH sides are trading on WTO rules. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the ROI/EU to ensure that any activity between the EU and the UK meets WTO rules. But the EU have already stated that they won’t install any physical structures there. Therefore, the EU will be in breach of WTO rules.

You keep on about the UK, but a border is a 2 way thing. If the EU don’t implement a physical border, then they will be in breach of WTO rules according to you.

So please explain that one to me.

There are no political reasons which the WTO will accept for us not operating borders. You are right, there is an obligation on Ireland to operate customs, but you will find that since it is us introducing the border, the onus is on us to create it, (Both sides then being responsible for their own customs).

The Irish will be trading under the agreed EU WTO rules and tariffs exactly as they do at all their other borders. It is us that have to agree new schedules with all WTO members to avoid defaulting to the highest tariffs.

However, in addition to that we still need to operate customs on every movement across all our borders (including all ports and airports) to the new schedules which haven;t been agreed yet. We will then need all processes,systems and staff to operate the new rules and tariffs on every single movement across our borders. We will NOT be in a position to do that on 28th March 2019.

If you listen to the recording I posted it may give you some idea how completely out of your depth you are (and possibly stop your next question as to why we can't just waive the tariffs on all imports)

And while I've been wasting my f***ing time typing up an explanation in simple English Thunder Bolt has gone and found a pre-written one

https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...the-options-for-the-irish-border-after-brexit

 

[portslade seagull]

The minute we leave the EU we will have to negotiate 164 different trade deals. Countries that already have trade deals with the EU and 27 different countries are going to think about whether they trade with one solitary country or 27 united countries.
Canada took 7 years to sort out their trade deal and you think we can work out the details for a plan in 11 weeks.

The EU aren't doing anything out of spite. They don't have to do anything. We are the ones who are walking out of their club, so they don't need to do anything. They aren't going to change anything to suit us, Why should they?
The deal we have to agree is to sort out what we pay for MEPs pensions, and other responsibilities that come our way, to make sure everything in the divorce bill is finalised.

Lets just say money talks and the EU need the 39Billion divorce bill. A deal will be sorted

 

[larus]

The minute we leave the EU we will have to negotiate 164 different trade deals. Countries that already have trade deals with the EU and 27 different countries are going to think about whether they trade with one solitary country or 27 united countries.
Canada took 7 years to sort out their trade deal and you think we can work out the details for a plan in 11 weeks.

The EU aren't doing anything out of spite. They don't have to do anything. We are the ones who are walking out of their club, so they don't need to do anything. They aren't going to change anything to suit us, Why should they?
The deal we have to agree is to sort out what we pay for MEPs pensions, and other responsibilities that come our way, to make sure everything in the divorce bill is finalised.

I sometimes wonder how much people get confused between tariffs and regulatory alignment. They aren’t the same thing.

Tariffs are a TAX which the IMPORTING country can CHOOSE to apply on whatever PRODUCTS it wants to. The country just needs to be consistent to treat all WTO parties the same.

Therefore, tariffs are a way to PROTECT industries in the IMPORTING country/trade block. The EU has circa 12,000 tariffs (Taxes) which it imposes to protect industries from competition, which makes prices more expensive within the EU.

Once we leave the EU we can choose to not apply tariffs on things which we don’t grow/make here but are liable for tariffs within the EU, so they become cheaper!!!!!

Do not confuse TARIFFS with REGULATIONS.

 

[pastafarian]

Give Me strength.


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he obviously only read the first paragraph too
what a numpty

 

[The Clamp]

Give Me strength.


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Written by a leave voter which is why it points out faults with the remain position too.Quite a balanced opinion piece.
Sorry if the facts don't swing in your favour but the vote did so chin up, it's all going swimmingly.

 

[melias shoes]

Lets just say money talks and the EU need the 39Billion divorce bill. A deal will be sorted

Exactly. They want that money. No deal,no money.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Lets just say money talks and the EU need the 39Billion divorce bill. A deal will be sorted

39Billion is chicken feed compared to what's at stake with the trade deals.

 

[larus]

There are no political reasons which the WTO will accept for us not operating borders. You are right, there is an obligation on Ireland to operate customs, but you will find that since it is us introducing the border, the onus is on us to create it, (Both sides then being responsible for their own customs).

The Irish will be trading under the agreed EU WTO rules and tariffs exactly as they do at all their other borders. It is us that have to agree new schedules with all WTO members to avoid defaulting to the highest tariffs.

However, in addition to that we still need to operate customs on every movement across all our borders (including all ports and airports) to the new schedules which haven;t been agreed yet. We will then need all processes,systems and staff to operate the new rules and tariffs on every single movement across our borders. We will NOT be in a position to do that on 28th March 2019.

If you listen to the recording I posted it may give you some idea how completely out of your depth you are (and possibly stop your next question as to why we can't just waive the tariffs on all imports)

And while I've been wasting my f***ing time typing up an explanation in simple English Thunder Bolt has gone and found a pre-written one

Again, you are being very selective in you facts. If a border comes into existence between the EU/UK due to changes, the BOTH parties are responsible for their own border. You seen to want to say that it’s just down to the U.K. to resolve, but that is BS. If we leave on WTO rules, then it’s sweet FA to do with us what the EU do to control THEIR border. It’s not our border - our border is on our side of the border, not theirs.

So, if we are falling foul of WTO rules, then so are they. That’s the fact - plain and simple.

Maybe you should address that before you start accusing people off being out of their depth, when it really is quite clear that you and your tea-boy friend (who supposedly works in government) keep spouting crap based on reaminer scare stories.

I’ve already said there will be disruption. But planes won’t stop flying and most goods will just be waived through as they won’t require inspection. For example, already on the NI/ROI border there are differen tax/VAT rules so trade needs to be identified.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Again, you are being very selective in you facts. If a border comes into existence between the EU/UK due to changes, the BOTH parties are responsible for their own border. You seen to want to say that it’s just down to the U.K. to resolve, but that is BS. If we leave on WTO rules, then it’s sweet FA to do with us what the EU do to control THEIR border. It’s not our border - our border is on our side of the border, not theirs.

So, if we are falling foul of WTO rules, then so are they. That’s the fact - plain and simple.

Maybe you should address that before you start accusing people off being out of their depth, when it really is quite clear that you and your tea-boy friend (who supposedly works in government) keep spouting crap based on reaminer scare stories.

I’ve already said there will be disruption. But planes won’t stop flying and most goods will just be waived through as they won’t require inspection. For example, already on the NI/ROI border there are differen tax/VAT rules so trade needs to be identified.

You refuse to listen to me when i explain simple facts. I give you links to experts in that field, you refuse to listen to them.

But you believe that it will all work out right in the end - it is a bit of a theme isn't it

And, i didn't realise how much my 'tea-boy' friend annoyed you. I daren't tell you about the others, I don't think your blood pressure could take it

 

[The Clamp]

You refuse to listen to me when i explain simple facts. I give you links to experts in that field, you refuse to listen to them.

But you believe that it will all work out right in the end - it is a bit of a theme isn't it

It looks like he cuts and pastes a lot of stuff but he doesn't seem to understand it. He's not willing to listen people trying to educate him either which is just ignorant.

 

[GT49er]

The minute we leave the EU we will have to negotiate 164 different trade deals.

It'll just be amazing how many goods and payments will somehow manage to cross borders. Big (and small) business will carry on trading, with a healthy f*** you regulations policy.

The deal we have to agree is to sort out what we pay for MEPs pensions, and other responsibilities that come our way, to make sure everything in the divorce bill is finalised.

Nothing to agree - we'll pay our MEPs' pensions, plus those of the admin. staff (civil servants) who worked for us in Brussels. Never any question of that. Do you think there was? Really? Other than that, no deal, no divorce bill - simples.

 

[larus]

You refuse to listen to me when i explain simple facts. I give you links to experts in that field, you refuse to listen to them.

But you believe that it will all work out right in the end - it is a bit of a theme isn't it

And, i didn't realise how much my 'tea-boy' friend annoyed you. I daren't tell you about the others, I don't think your blood pressure could take it

You bog standard response is deflection and not answering. Again, you refuse to answer the question about the EU controlling the ROI to UK border.

Same as when I challenged you on whether Remainers or Leavers were running the negotiations. Deflection as you can’t answer.

You are the weakest link

 

[Baker lite]

It looks like he cuts and pastes a lot of stuff but he doesn't seem to understand it. He's not willing to listen people trying to educate him either which is just ignorant.

Did you just assume gender?


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