[Politics] Brexit

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Are you seriously suggesting the government just wave through pharmaceutical and medical supplies with no check on origin, destination and all the storage, maintenance and audit etc which goes with a tightly regulated industry? Jesus. It’s the most regulated industry in the world for a very good reason; it’s the U.K. not the Wild West.

I’m sorry, but your post shows complete ignorance.

Absolutely.

Moreover will 'the government' simply 'wave in' anything? Surely the whole reason for Brexit was to stop lorry loads of illegal immigrants flooding in, hidden under bales of hay?

"What have you got in the lorry, mate?"

"Masses of urgent medical supplies, guv"

"Right you are, come on in"

That'll work

 

[larus]

Wow - I can almost hear the Betrayal narrative being constructed. But hang on: David Davis was our lead negotiator and Dom Raab is now, Bexiteers both. Let's be honest about this, we can agree that the negotiations have been a shambles but a pretty big factor has been that even the Brexiteers are not totally agreed on the form the Brexit should take (eg leaving with or without a deal) plus they are playing with a weak hand. In short the 'it' that we are all meant to 'get on with' is a very tricky thing to understand, conceptualise and deliver - and that's being generous.

Are you totally divorced from reality? You think Dominic Rabb is the lead negotiator for Brexit? Well, if you think that then the rest of your post is irrelevant. May I politely suggest that you read up on what his role is, on Olly Robins (and hence, once of the main reasons why David Davis felt forced to resign), and on what TM has said her role will be.

We’ve had Hammond in the treasury not preparing for No Deal.
We’ve got Olly Robbins (a remainer civil servant) doing the negotiations (so much for parliamentary democracy eh!.
And TM now will drive the rest of the negotiation process.

Not a Brexiteer in sight.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

How many more times we didn't cause this. You need to look closer to remain castle and for King Cameron who fought a bungled misleading campaign so sure it was already won. The majority didn't fall for all the remain lies of being 4.5k each worse off or millions losing there jobs. Once defeat was confirmed him and his cronies couldn't get out of dodge quick enough.
So sure he was of winning he never put any contingency in place for a out vote.[/QUOTE]

So, let's get this right. You Brexit voters didn't cause this mess. It was Cameron's fault for losing the referendum.

I am not sure I have read anything quite as absurd on NSC, ever.

I assume that what you actually mean is that the Brexit fiasco is caused because none of the politicians charged with obtaining Brexit have the remotest capability of achieving it. With that I agree...

...So....why did you vote for something that no policician can deliver. Or even describe? You might as well have voted for resurrection.

Has it not occurred to you that there may be no such thing as a good Brexit? Like resurrection, it may not exist.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Are you totally divorced from reality? You think Dominic Rabb is the lead negotiator for Brexit? Well, if you think that then the rest of your post is irrelevant. May I politely suggest that you read up on what his role is, on Olly Robins (and hence, once of the main reasons why David Davis felt forced to resign), and on what TM has said her role will be.

We’ve had Hammond in the treasury not preparing for No Deal.
We’ve got Olly Robbins (a remainer civil servant) doing the negotiations (so much for parliamentary democracy eh!.
And TM now will drive the rest of the negotiation process.

Not a Brexiteer in sight.

Off the top of my head Boris Johnson, David Davis, Michael Gove, Esther McVey, Penny Mordaunt, Andrea Leadsom, Liam Fox, Chris Grayling have all been cabinet Brexiteers that have got us to the position we are now in

You were told exactly what would happen but wouldn't believe it. More importantly, with Theresa May's Pick and Mix blown out and the Fantasy of 'no deal' becoming clearer by the day, what do you think should happen now ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

How many more times we didn't cause this. You need to look closer to remain castle and for King Cameron who fought a bungled misleading campaign so sure it was already won. The majority didn't fall for all the remain lies of being 4.5k each worse off or millions losing there jobs. Once defeat was confirmed him and his cronies couldn't get out of dodge quick enough.
So sure he was of winning he never put any contingency in place for a out vote.[/QUOTE]

So, let's get this right. You Brexit voters didn't cause this mess. It was Cameron's fault for losing the referendum.

I am not sure I have read anything quite as absurd on NSC, ever.

I assume that what you actually mean is that the Brexit fiasco is caused because none of the politicians charged with obtaining Brexit have the remotest capability of achieving it. With that I agree...

...So....why did you vote for something that no policician can deliver. Or even describe? You might as well have voted for resurrection.

Has it not occurred to you that there may be no such thing as a good Brexit? Like resurrection, it may not exist.

Don't you dare tell him about Santa or the Easter Bunny. There's only so much one man can take

 

[Blue3]

It’s just a simple, easy cheap shot. The voters voted leave. However, the establishment are mainly remain. Lots of MPs, most of the HoL and civil servants are. So, it’s remainers who are ‘implementing’ Brexit and, let’s be honest, making a complete f*** up of it.

No preparation for WTO and no threats back to the EU to say if you play nasty, then so will we. The Remainer negotiators have been incompetent.

Brexit negotiations have been led since day and one up until last week by vote leave campaigners it is they who have been incompetent.

 

[Baldseagull]

Cowards way out of what ?? If it's WTO because the EU negotiating team are stubborn so be it. Cowards are the ones bending over backwards to sabotage at every turn like you and others on here.

The thing is, the remain campaign said they would stubbornly stick to the rules they have formed over the last few decades and this was described as project fear by Leave, Leave campaign was saying they needed us more than we need them and it would be in their interests to bend to our will. It always was a fantasy that the EU would bend over backwards to facilitate Britain, there was a warning that this is how it would be, but the majority either chose to believe in the Leave assertion that they need us more than they need to keep the integrity of the single market and customs union, or didn't care how bad it would be as long as we were out.

 

[Blue3]

Are you totally divorced from reality? You think Dominic Rabb is the lead negotiator for Brexit? Well, if you think that then the rest of your post is irrelevant. May I politely suggest that you read up on what his role is, on Olly Robins (and hence, once of the main reasons why David Davis felt forced to resign), and on what TM has said her role will be.

We’ve had Hammond in the treasury not preparing for No Deal.
We’ve got Olly Robbins (a remainer civil servant) doing the negotiations (so much for parliamentary democracy eh!.
And TM now will drive the rest of the negotiation process.

Not a Brexiteer in sight.

���������� it's the last line that got me ����������

 

[Baldseagull]

My dad was a diabetic on three injections a day, if we was alive today he would laugh about all the crap that's written. Nobody is going to be without Insulin, so lets stop this scaremongering.

Whilst I am fairly sure something would be done, you can't tell us what or how, and I believe in this regard you are as informed as anyone in Government.

 

[larus]

Brexit negotiations have been led since day and one up until last week by vote leave campaigners it is they who have been incompetent.

Complete garbage. David Davis has been undermined the whole way through by Olly Robbins. Robbins started in the Brexit department, but was then seconded to No 10 to head up the ‘other’ department which was the one really doing the negotiations.

The whole way through the negotiations have been driven by Remainers. i know that Remainers like to blame this clusterf*ck on the leave voters, but the implementation has been done the Remainers who want to circumvent the will of the people.

I know you’ll pretend that you can’t see the facts, and being honest, I don’t bother much with this thread anymore as the Remainers (for obvious reasons), can’t ever see the simple fact that it’s remainers trying to implement Brexit. If they could at least admit that obvious fact, then it would give me some hope that logical debate could be had.

I’ll exclude HW Tackle in that wish, as senility appears to have taken over any sense he may have had in the past. Block him, Block him, Block him. Must be odd going on a football chat forum and just talking to yourself

 

[WATFORD zero]

Complete garbage. David Davis has been undermined the whole way through by Olly Robbins. Robbins started in the Brexit department, but was then seconded to No 10 to head up the ‘other’ department which was the one really doing the negotiations.

The whole way through the negotiations have been driven by Remainers. i know that Remainers like to blame this clusterf*ck on the leave voters, but the implementation has been done the Remainers who want to circumvent the will of the people.

I know you’ll pretend that you can’t see the facts, and being honest, I don’t bother much with this thread anymore as the Remainers (for obvious reasons), can’t ever see the simple fact that it’s remainers trying to implement Brexit. If they could at least admit that obvious fact, then it would give me some hope that logical debate could be had.

I’ll exclude HW Tackle in that wish, as senility appears to have taken over any sense he may have had in the past. Block him, Block him, Block him. Must be odd going on a football chat forum and just talking to yourself

So what exactly do you think a team of Brexiteer negotiators would have got the EU to agree to on Ireland/NI, customs etc if they weren't constantly undermined by Remainers

 

[larus]

Off the top of my head Boris Johnson, David Davis, Michael Gove, Esther McVey, Penny Mordaunt, Andrea Leadsom, Liam Fox, Chris Grayling have all been cabinet Brexiteers that have got us to the position we are now in

You were told exactly what would happen but wouldn't believe it. More importantly, with Theresa May's Pick and Mix blown out and the Fantasy of 'no deal' becoming clearer by the day, what do you think should happen now ?

Wow, you’re losing it even more than normal. Only one of them has been ‘involved’ in negotiations (Davis), but he’s been undermined by TM/Robbins. Hammond has refused to spend on preparations for No Deal.
TM has bent over and taken it, god knows how many times, from the EU.
Robbins is a civil servant and running the negotiations.

We should have prepared for a No Deal and said to the EU, either negotiate in good faith or not at all. The NI border is irrelevant as all we need to say is we won’t be erecting any infrastructure. Full Stop - end of conversation on that topic.

Then, if you want our money and a trade deal in goods which protects your huge surplus with us, then lets talk. if not, a trade deal is of no benefit to us in goods.

As for the fear about running out of imported food, that only happens if the UK Government chooses to implement checks on stuff from the EU. Lets be sensible here, if goods from the EU are safe on the 29th March, then they’ll still be safe on the 30h March. If we then want to diverge over time we can do and change as we go on. The checks carried out are OUR choice and not imposed on us. We can CHOOSE to recognise EU standards if we want. It’s not complicated.

 

[larus]

So what exactly do you think a team of Brexiteer negotiators would have got the EU to agree to on Ireland/NI, customs etc if they weren't constantly undermined by Remainers

As said before. Tell the EU we aren’t going to impose any infrastructure as WTO rules allow for this in areas where there is a need based on political reasons. Then, it’s their choice if they want to.

 

[portslade seagull]

How many more times we didn't cause this. You need to look closer to remain castle and for King Cameron who fought a bungled misleading campaign so sure it was already won. The majority didn't fall for all the remain lies of being 4.5k each worse off or millions losing there jobs. Once defeat was confirmed him and his cronies couldn't get out of dodge quick enough.
So sure he was of winning he never put any contingency in place for a out vote.[/QUOTE]

So, let's get this right. You Brexit voters didn't cause this mess. It was Cameron's fault for losing the referendum.

I am not sure I have read anything quite as absurd on NSC, ever.

I assume that what you actually mean is that the Brexit fiasco is caused because none of the politicians charged with obtaining Brexit have the remotest capability of achieving it. With that I agree...

...So....why did you vote for something that no policician can deliver. Or even describe? You might as well have voted for resurrection.

Has it not occurred to you that there may be no such thing as a good Brexit? Like resurrection, it may not exist.

Who sanctioned the vote? I didn't. No vote no supposed mess. Give people the freedom expect a bloody nose. Yet still you and others blame the voters who dared to vote leave responsible. Its a mess now as the heart of government charged with seeing it through have been against it since the result. It's been a half hearted driverless campaign since

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Who sanctioned the vote? I didn't. No vote no supposed mess. Give people the freedom expect a bloody nose. Yet still you and others blame the voters who dared to vote leave responsible. Its a mess now as the heart of government charged with seeing it through have been against it since the result. It's been a half hearted driverless campaign since

Did you vote Conservative in 2015? For the manifesto that contained the EU referendum? Thought so.

The leavers are to blame for where we are. You were sold a pup and this mess is the result.

Seeing as we are both in agreement that this is a mess and that the government is unable to carry it out, do you now think that we would be better of remaining? Or do we just carry on down this path regardless of cost?

 

[WATFORD zero]

As said before. Tell the EU we aren’t going to impose any infrastructure as WTO rules allow for this in areas where there is a need based on political reasons. Then, it’s their choice if they want to.

Sorry, I forgot that you are the one who wants to implement WTO with no borders or customs.

I think I've given my opinion on that already.

 

[Baldseagull]

leaving would raise problems with exports, and probably delays and costs due to new tariff from EU. this has been deliberatly twisted to assume it would be the same for imports. yes, the government could wave goods through to prevent any problems, at least we should accept this possibility, rather than assume worst case alternatives.

would the government actually stop goods from the EU? would the EU stop shipping goods to UK? ask yourself honestly if you believe either of those things then assess the likelihood of shortages.

and im done. theres been some interesting debates but in general its just toxic and many would like to believe the worst in everything, insult rather that discuss, on both sides.

There are hundreds of issues that will present themselves in the case of a real no deal situation, we might get a no deal deal, which would essentially be a delay in the exit date, but at some point we need to have systems in place that allow things to move, and we are nowhere near ready for that, years away. It might have been ok to say, don't worry, we will work something out 2 years ago, but not now.
As far as I know, the EU have agreed that drivers and vehicles can enter under the Green Card Free circulation area, but no date has been set for this to start, if it is not in place on day one after we leave, then every vehicle and driver will have to physically have new documents from their insurers and these will all have to be checked, their is not the capability of doing this electronically on either side of the channel for the volume of vehicles that make the crossing. If this is the case, even for a couple of days, the backlog will be enormous, this is separate to any customs issues.

 

[Baldseagull]

Much is being made of the solidarity of the 27 countries left in the EU once we Brexit.If we go WTO,and hard customs borders,Irish exports would totally break down after the first couple of days and the whole country would be down the pan in weeks.So Ireland needs us more than we need them,ergo the whole EU.
As for the scare on insulin,the USA are the largest manufacturer so another load of crap.I expect Rawlins is a bit miffed cos his EMA chums have moved.Any sensible countries,like Germany,who want to trade with us are now talking bi-lateral trade deals.The rest can take a running jump.WTO ROOLS,OK

They will be doing that through the EU, and it will take years.

 

[Baldseagull]

Why do you think it's too late for No Deal?We only need bi-lateral deals with 5 of the 27 countries and the groundwork has already been laid,so as per usual you are talking drivel.

Tell me about this ability to do separate bi-lateral deals as an EU member, it might have saved all this trouble if we had known we could do this.

 

[Two Professors]

What on earth are you talking about ?

5 days ago we and the EU submitted what we want our new WTO trading terms to look like to the rest of the WTO.

I know you don't do detail, so in summary we said

You remember the deals you negotiated with us as part of the EU, one of the largest trading blocs in the world ? Well we are now leaving, are a far smaller economy, but would like those same deals please. (You may be able to guess where this is heading).

Surprisingly, the EU's submission is a little different.

Now what happens is the rest of the WTO membership have 90 days to raise their objections and, as WTO members, they all have a right to say whether their trade would be affected. US, Brazil and New Zealand have already said they don't agree due to the fact that the EU and the UK share a quota system that limits imports of sensitive goods like beef, lamb and sugar. The UK cannot simply replicate these quotas and has proposed to split them with the EU based on historical trade flows. The EU has proposed otherwise.

I would expect the majority of other members to also take the opportunity to renegotiate with the now far smaller UK. All of this means that if and when they object and ask for a better deal, Britain will be simultaneously negotiating a trade deal with the EU and the various WTO members. Luckily for us, we won't have to negotiate with all 164 members as most have grouped together into trading blocs to give themselves more negotiating power. (After all, who would be stupid enough to try and negotiate on their own )

Looks like the 2nd easiest trade deal in history, doesn't it

*edit* I did think Mauritania traded as an individual state under WTO. However, according to the WTO, Mauritania has joined the Economic Community of West African States, and it has preferential trade arrangements with some 20 WTO members. Which means we will be the only country trading solely under WTO terms.

When they start laying Tarmac at Dover, I'll believe that preparations for a WTO 'no deal' Brexit have started. Until then, anyone who manages to give the subject more than 30 seconds attention will realise it's obviously bullshit designed to indulge and gratify the naive and simple. (And I think the EU may already be ahead of us on that particular line of negotiation).

More drivel.Do you think it's 2019 already?You love to waffle and try and erect roadblocks against reality,but World Trade even happens in wartime.