[Politics] Brexit

[hans kraay fan club]

Reports this morning that Tory chief whip Julian Smith did instruct paired MP's to ignore agreed pairing before Tuesday's votes. Toxic.

Desperate stuff, how much lower can the Tories sink

[tweet]1019857945306259456[/tweet]

This is unimaginably poor form. How can anybody trust them on any level? This should be far bigger news than it has been - incredible.

 

[nicko31]

Just the talk of "no deal" will defer business investment in the UK or send it elsewhere, and its going to weigh further on fragile consumer confidence.

Even if we stopped Brexit tomorrow huge damage already done

Best hope is May finds some common ground with centerists in Labour to get a deal through.

It won't be a good deal and the UK will pay an economic price, and its very existence as a union hangs in the balance

 

[Two Professors]

This exchange has been repeated a hundred times on this thread, and a million times elsewhere. It's dull to have to repeat it again, but necessary. There is no 'Brexit that was voted for'. You know this. We all know this. What you mean is 'The Brexit that I choose to believe people voted for'. Your statement is either wholly disingenuous, or hugely arrogant.



You voted to leave. You knew that it was a completely unknown risk. You knew it would very likely cause damage to the country. You knew it would cost people their livelihoods. You still voted for it. Blame whoever you want for the eventual outcome, but you know whose fault this is, as we all do.

What a load of old twaddle."Brexit that was voted for"-of course it was voted for,by over 17 million people.LEAVE THE EU.

 

[CHAPPERS]

This is unimaginably poor form. How can anybody trust them on any level? This should be far bigger news than it has been - incredible.

Nobody on record yet.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Just the talk of "no deal" will defer business investment in the UK or send it elsewhere, and its going to weigh further on fragile consumer confidence.

Even if we stopped Brexit tomorrow huge damage already done

Best hope is May finds some common ground with centerists in Labour to get a deal through.

It won't be a good deal and the UK will pay an economic price, and its very existence as a union hangs in the balance

All worth it though. [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] and his mates have got their country back.

 

[pastafarian]

So there were not important figures of the pro-Brexit side, in the lead up to the vote, advocating a 'leave and stay IN the customs union' approach, then? That didn't happen? That is one example, amongst many. To claim there was a consistent and clear end goal set out, at any point, is just a lie. YOU know very well what YOU voted for. To claim that you know what everyone else voted for in this desperately poorly executed vote, is simply nonsense. As you know.



It is exactly that kind of crass rhetoric that muddied the waters, and denied people the chance to hear proper intelligent analysis of the facts, to make an informed decision. You're not William ****ing Wallace.

If there were pro brexiters in the official leave campaign advocating we should not be able to do our own trade deals then post the link......dont be shy. I dont claim to know what everyone else voted for, i never have. there is a difference between knowing the consequence of a vote and what an individual voted for........you will figure this out eventually.
I never denied anyone the chance to hear analysis, you are simply angry that i wont and cant put a price on freedom.......im afraid you will just have to suck that up.

 

[Ernest]

All worth it though. [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] and his mates have got their country back.

And he has a blue passport

 

[Two Professors]

Not to mention various, well sourced, political journalists across the political spectrum who I'd hazard a guess are slightly more informed than your average NSC Brexit voter who mocks Twitter.

If you honestly believe that Twitter isn't populated by billy-no-mates who believe the Earth is flat,then you need to start a water only diet.For every bit of truth on there,at least 100 false facts and downright lies,believed by the World's gullible.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Seven million driving permits will be needed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44881058

This was released on Tuesday by The RHA - https://www.rha.uk.net/news/press-r...it-white-paper-doesn’t-go-far-enough-says-rha

It'll just dismissed as #projectfear #remoaners #experts #wouldhavehappenedanyway etc.

Once again you are both presenting a possibility as fact. It says they might be needed, but only if the UK and EU don't agree to mutually recognise licences.

 

[Two Professors]

Seven million driving permits will be needed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44881058

'Up to' and 'could be' would make that closer to what the article says.

 

[Simster]

What a load of old twaddle."Brexit that was voted for"-of course it was voted for,by over 17 million people.LEAVE THE EU.

It really isn't. You clearly haven't read the exchange leading up to that comment.

pastafarian (in his usual unintelligent and intolerant way) was insisting that Jacob Rees-Mogg "is just pushing for the Brexit that was voted for". Even many Brexit voters would take issue with that, and is what hkfc was arguing against.

Jacob Rees-Mogg is a dangerous parliamentarian who has decided that Brexit means HIS definition of Brexit, and goes whinging to the right-wing press whenever anybody dares disagree with him. This is the bloke who uses filibustering as a means of ensuring democracy isn't seen through when it suits him.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Seven million driving permits will be needed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44881058

This was released on Tuesday by The RHA - https://www.rha.uk.net/news/press-r...it-white-paper-doesn’t-go-far-enough-says-rha

It'll just dismissed as #projectfear #remoaners #experts #wouldhavehappenedanyway etc.

just as well i have an international permit

But this is just more project fear, do you really think there will not be an agreement on mutually recognised licences. This is a reciprocal agreement, Will the Eu really put all their citizens over here that need that reciprocity to drive to be able to work in this country out of work, will the EU really bring their cross border exports to a standstill by ensuring their drivers cant drive in the UK?

Desperate or what

Predictably as ever [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] didn't disappoint on that one as he's just the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

What a load of old twaddle."Brexit that was voted for"-of course it was voted for,by over 17 million people.LEAVE THE EU.

Leave the EU and the Customs Union?
Leave the EU and remain in the Customs Union?
Leave the EU but remain tied in a Norway model?
Leave the EU and end freedom of movement?
Leave the EU but grant right to remain of all EU residents?
Leave the EU to stop 60 million Turks and hordes of various other brown people 'swarming' in and over-running us?

 

[AK74]

From today's FT:

The Brexiters’ assumption has always been that they will impose on the rest of us their Elizabethan fantasies of a buccaneering England restored to global pre-eminence. As the cheerleaders for departure, they assumed they could set its terms. Now they find that parliament wants its say. They can wreck Mrs May’s plans, but lack the votes to carry their own. Their rage is palpable. Stalemate could yet see Britain staying in.

Tick-tock [we might not be leaving].

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

[MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION]. Take a break, you’re been owned by numerous people over the past few days. Maybe some time away will be beneficial to you?

 

[Simster]

[MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION], have you got anything to say about Farage then?

 

[Two Professors]

And he has a blue passport

Hey,I was first in the queue!

 

[ManOfSussex]

If you honestly believe that Twitter isn't populated by billy-no-mates who believe the Earth is flat,then you need to start a water only diet.For every bit of truth on there,at least 100 false facts and downright lies,believed by the World's gullible.

I didn't say it wasn't, hence I choose in terms of reputability who and what I read, rather like the choice of my daily newspaper being The Times rather than The Sun for example.

 

[Two Professors]

Leave the EU and the Customs Union?
Leave the EU and remain in the Customs Union?
Leave the EU but remain tied in a Norway model?
Leave the EU and end freedom of movement?
Leave the EU but grant right to remain of all EU residents?
Leave the EU to stop 60 million Turks and hordes of various other brown people 'swarming' in and over-running us?

It was a straightforward binary choice Leave or remain,and no amount of whining and crying will alter that.It is historic fact.

 

[pastafarian]

And you certainly sound both dishonest and remarkably unintelligent.

I'll say it again, people are entitled to continue opposing Brexit - that is what democracy is. Democracy has NEVER been about meekly accepting the paper-thin majority of referendum, shrouded in accusations of lies and rule breaking. You need to accept that rather than spending your life whinging about anyone who continues to oppose Brexit.

The bottom line is that this mess is not caused by pro-Brexit or anti-Brexit people. It is caused by the people in power and their dereliction of duty in not having a plan in place for if Brexit was voted for. I've seen enough of this current Tory party to realise they are hopelessly incompetent. Their absence of a Brexit plan, and the extraordinary arrogance of their last election campaign where they decided they barely needed to bother campaigning beyond "if you don't vote for us, you'll get that nasty Jeremy Corbyn".

The depressing bottom line is that we are likely to get a terrible deal, it will be the fault of the government but you will continue to bury your head in the sand and continue this bitter, baseless tirade against "wreckers". If there is any justice whatsoever, the Tories will be utterly decimated at the next GE. The LibDems were punished for less in 2010. A LOT less.

Let me be very clear and repeat what i have said on here before. I am not against those that oppose Brexit, i am against those who are against brexit who will try to stop the democratic vote being enacted.There is nothing wrong with being unhappy at the vote.
I have said a number of times, if you are against brexit then campaign to rejoin after we have left. This is the correct path of democracy, it respects the vote tp leave and respects the vote to try and rejoin at a later date. It will sit much better with the country and put an end to this divisiveness. The remoaners though are refusing to do this, they risk a complete breakdown of parliamentary accountability by their current methods........the consequences of that are very grave indeed. They really are playing with fire.