[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

Of course its a possibility, the Article itself makes provisions to extensions to the negotiations. Realistically though any extension to negotiations will be a matter of a few months if they think there is light at the end of the tunnel by next march. if the wreckers have made any deal impossible, we will all know before the need for an extension is considered.......then we will just leave with no deal.

Crashing out in March with no transition and all that follows is more than a distinct possibility now. I wouldn't say that a deal being made is impossible though, anymore than I would presume to know the length of any possible Article 50 extension. Further concessions or not, if a deal was agreed and then subsequently rejected by parliament, it would get most interesting as to where this goes next, hence the Article 50 extension coming into play.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

MPs are elected to represent their constituents. No change of tack from me, despite your efforts to place various quotes together.

Then, as Pasta has pointed out, using that logic Brexit should be a done deal as a majority of MPs have constituents that voted leave. I note you don't comment on that !

 

[pastafarian]

You should take a leaf out of the book of the Brexit-backing business woman on BBC Breakfast this morning, who rightly holds this government responsible for lacking a duty of care for not having any semblance of a plan for if the nation voted out, rather than constantly blaming people exercising their democratic right to continue to oppose Brexit.

You sound like an utter simpleton banging on about "wreckers". It's pathetic and childish. "wreckers"... FFS.

I dont really take much notice of idiots who dont understand any plan for leaving can only be fluid and is entirely subject to negotiations,negotiations that can only start after Article 50 notice is given. The notion that there should have been an agreed plan to leave, set in stone, prior to the vote and prior to telling them we are leaving is just the sort of rubbish you get from disingenuous Lib Dem undemocratic loons. They are certainly not worth listening to in the slightest

 

[ManOfSussex]

You realise that Theresa May, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Nigel Farage, Jeremy Corbyn etc etc are all on Twitter?

Not to mention various, well sourced, political journalists across the political spectrum who I'd hazard a guess are slightly more informed than your average NSC Brexit voter who mocks Twitter.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not to mention various, well sourced, political journalists across the political spectrum who I'd hazard a guess are slightly more informed than your average NSC Brexit voter who mocks Twitter.

As discussed on another thread, [MENTION=30602]Secret[/MENTION]barrister is one of my favourites. They post some cracking tweets about politics and criminal law.

 

[Simster]

I dont really take much notice of idiots who dont understand any plan for leaving can only be fluid and is entirely subject to negotiations,negotiations that can only start after Article 50 notice is given. The notion that there should have been an agreed plan to leave, set in stone, prior to the vote and prior to telling them we are leaving is just the sort of rubbish you get from disingenuous Lib Dem undemocratic loons. They are certainly not worth listening to in the slightest

There is a difference between a PLAN and an OUTCOME. A plan might have been "if we vote Brexit, we trigger article 50 the day after the vote and negotiate everything from a no deal position". Or it might have been ""if we vote Brexit, we do not trigger article 50 until we have have an idea of the EU position on the big ticket items of free movement, the customs union and the Irish border". Or it might have been "we will trigger article 50, negotiate as best possible and put any negotiated position to another public vote before it is acted upon".

These are all examples of PLANS. They may be flawed but they are plans none the less. What they are not are OUTCOMES. Outcomes are not known until after negotiations.

You sound like a complete simpleton consistently blaming people who are diametrically opposed to Brexit for "wrecking" it. As if we are all expected to say "right we lost, let's roll our sleeves up and get this thing sorted". Do f*ck off, son. To half the country, it's a shìt idea.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Reports this morning that Tory chief whip Julian Smith did instruct paired MP's to ignore agreed pairing before Tuesday's votes. Toxic.

*Enemy of the People*

 

[CHAPPERS]

I dont really take much notice of idiots who dont understand any plan for leaving can only be fluid and is entirely subject to negotiations,negotiations that can only start after Article 50 notice is given. The notion that there should have been an agreed plan to leave, set in stone, prior to the vote and prior to telling them we are leaving is just the sort of rubbish you get from disingenuous Lib Dem undemocratic loons. They are certainly not worth listening to in the slightest

Do you think the White Paper should have been written earlier than last week?

 

[pastafarian]

This exchange has been repeated a hundred times on this thread, and a million times elsewhere. It's dull to have to repeat it again, but necessary. There is no 'Brexit that was voted for'. You know this. We all know this. What you mean is 'The Brexit that I choose to believe people voted for'. Your statement is either wholly disingenuous, or hugely arrogant.
.

If you voted to leave you knew the consequences of that vote, whether you agreed with them or not in assessing your decision, were to end free movement, therefore no longer being members of the single market, returning more law making powers back to Westminster, ending the primacy of the ECJ and being free to do our own trade deals, therefore out of THE customs union. You can bang on as much as you want that these ideals were not front and centre of the debate but you would be continuing to tell yourself porkies because you dont want to believe it

You voted to leave. You knew that it was a completely unknown risk. You knew it would very likely cause damage to the country. You knew it would cost people their livelihoods. You still voted for it. Blame whoever you want for the eventual outcome, but you know whose fault this is, as we all do.

Yes we are leaving, i admit i helped cause that. I will never put a price on freedom.

 

[Simster]

Do you think the White Paper should have been written earlier than last week?

This will be the fault of "wreckers" I think you'll find. The bloke is a moron.


It's one thing to hold the position of being pro-Brexit, quite another to blame remainers for the utter shambles that the Tories have since presided over.

 

[pastafarian]

You sound like a complete simpleton consistently blaming people who are diametrically opposed to Brexit for "wrecking" it. As if we are all expected to say "right we lost, let's roll our sleeves up and get this thing sorted". Do f*ck off, son. To half the country, it's a shìt idea.

Those MP`s that lost the vote and respect democracy are doing just that by respecting the vote and rolling up their sleeves and trying to get the best deal whilst leaving. Your disrespect of the democratic vote and democracy is duly noted, you are entitled to be a weasal. Out of interest are you a lib dem supporter........you certainly sound like one.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Seven million driving permits will be needed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44881058

 

[pastafarian]

You realise that Theresa May, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Nigel Farage, Jeremy Corbyn etc etc are all on Twitter?
You can follow whomever you want, and read their tweets. Not a newspaper article about their tweets, with the journalists' interpretation of it, but their own original tweets, authenticated by the blue tick.
Brighton and Hove Albion use Twitter, do you dismiss their tweets as not true? Like any form of internet communication, it is what you make it.

Of course, I am going to copy and paste tweets I agree with. I do have more than one source for my opinions, but you're too busy trying to belittle me to
give it any credence. You don't have a monopoly on truth.




Yes, the author of that article is, and you can search his twitter feed.
https://twitter.com/chrishanretty

Yeah but you retweet lies and tell lies based on what you read via third parties on twitter.
Not the same as original source.

 

[pastafarian]

Do you think the White Paper should have been written earlier than last week?

No, we should always let the EU publish first as they continue to do.
They did their policy on a future relationship a few weeks ago, let our white paper on the future relationship wait to see what hand they have played

 

[ManOfSussex]

Seven million driving permits will be needed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44881058

This was released on Tuesday by The RHA - https://www.rha.uk.net/news/press-r...it-white-paper-doesn’t-go-far-enough-says-rha

It'll just dismissed as #projectfear #remoaners #experts #wouldhavehappenedanyway etc.

 

[Simster]

Those MP`s that lost the vote and respect democracy are doing just that by respecting the vote and rolling up their sleeves and trying to get the best deal whilst leaving. Your disrespect of the democratic vote and democracy is duly noted, you are entitled to be a weasal. Out of interest are you a lib dem supporter........you certainly sound like one.

And you certainly sound both dishonest and remarkably unintelligent.

I'll say it again, people are entitled to continue opposing Brexit - that is what democracy is. Democracy has NEVER been about meekly accepting the paper-thin majority of referendum, shrouded in accusations of lies and rule breaking. You need to accept that rather than spending your life whinging about anyone who continues to oppose Brexit.

The bottom line is that this mess is not caused by pro-Brexit or anti-Brexit people. It is caused by the people in power and their dereliction of duty in not having a plan in place for if Brexit was voted for. I've seen enough of this current Tory party to realise they are hopelessly incompetent. Their absence of a Brexit plan, and the extraordinary arrogance of their last election campaign where they decided they barely needed to bother campaigning beyond "if you don't vote for us, you'll get that nasty Jeremy Corbyn".

The depressing bottom line is that we are likely to get a terrible deal, it will be the fault of the government but you will continue to bury your head in the sand and continue this bitter, baseless tirade against "wreckers". If there is any justice whatsoever, the Tories will be utterly decimated at the next GE. The LibDems were punished for less in 2010. A LOT less.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

If you voted to leave you knew the consequences of that vote, whether you agreed with them or not in assessing your decision, were to end free movement, therefore no longer being members of the single market, returning more law making powers back to Westminster, ending the primacy of the ECJ and being free to do our own trade deals, therefore out of THE customs union. You can bang on as much as you want that these ideals were not front and centre of the debate but you would be continuing to tell yourself porkies because you dont want to believe it

So there were not important figures of the pro-Brexit side, in the lead up to the vote, advocating a 'leave and stay IN the customs union' approach, then? That didn't happen? That is one example, amongst many. To claim there was a consistent and clear end goal set out, at any point, is just a lie. YOU know very well what YOU voted for. To claim that you know what everyone else voted for in this desperately poorly executed vote, is simply nonsense. As you know.

Yes we are leaving, i admit i helped cause that. I will never put a price on freedom.

It is exactly that kind of crass rhetoric that muddied the waters, and denied people the chance to hear proper intelligent analysis of the facts, to make an informed decision. You're not William ****ing Wallace.

 

[Simster]

Those MP`s that lost the vote and respect democracy are doing just that by respecting the vote and rolling up their sleeves and trying to get the best deal whilst leaving. Your disrespect of the democratic vote and democracy is duly noted, you are entitled to be a weasal. Out of interest are you a lib dem supporter........you certainly sound like one.

Oh and what is your opinion on Nigel Farage? You know, this fella:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.

 

[Ernest]

Desperate stuff, how much lower can the Tories sink

[tweet]1019857945306259456[/tweet]

 

[pastafarian]

Seven million driving permits will be needed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44881058

just as well i have an international permit

But this is just more project fear, do you really think there will not be an agreement on mutually recognised licences. This is a reciprocal agreement, Will the Eu really put all their citizens over here that need that reciprocity to drive to be able to work in this country out of work, will the EU really bring their cross border exports to a standstill by ensuring their drivers cant drive in the UK?

Desperate or what