[Politics] Brexit

[Blue Valkyrie]

Keep up, he’s just resigned!

Woo hoo.

Has Loathsome gone yet ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Mother-of-three Dawn Sturgess, 44, died on Sunday evening after falling ill in Amesbury on 30 June.
Her partner, Charlie Rowley, 45, who was also exposed to the nerve agent, remains critically ill in hospital.

British citizens on British soil and agents of a foreign government stand accused of the murder of Dawn Sturgess.
What sort of Foreign Secretary deems this an appropriate time to resign?

Boris Johnson only thinks about Boris Johnson. His comments about business just last week.

James O'Brien isn't too impressed either.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1016309772084277255

[tweet]1016309772084277255[/tweet]

 

[Billy the Fish]

Because the other 27 countries would decide the deal, such as joining the Euro, not having choice over our immigration policy etc etc.
We already have the best deal.

1. UK rebate
2. Schengen opt-out
3. Euro opt-out
4. Exempt from Euro bailouts
5. Charter of fundamental rights
6. AFSJ opt-out
7. Exempt from commitment to "ever closer union"
Britain always got concessions, while *in* the EU.

You need to stop believing everything you see on Twitter in that silly #pefb clique!
That tweet you've copy/pasted is laughably one sided, it's absolute nonsense!

If no.3 and no.4 didn't set alarm bells ringing about the validity of the list then you've got no hope.

 

[Weststander]

I read 90% were pro-EU/voted Remain. There has been talk at Labour's upcoming conference of motions being put forward of a clear alternative to the Tories mess, by Momentum no less, which if voted on and carried would force the front bench's hand as they would become policy. Could be too little, too late, we'll see.

But there's a critical additional recent reason for Corbyn's stance, touched on by [MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION].

Labour's shock 40% good showing at the last General Election, was analysed by a team of political scientists from across several universities. The swing they achieved was through mopping up millions of UKIP voters, by promising a full EU exit.

Corbyn and McDonnell are not going to throw their chances of winning the next election and the one after that, by ditching their explicit message to those key voters.

The election will not be decided in Islington, Hackney, Kemp Town and Lambeth, but in those key marginals in the Midlands and North, where there's very strong anti-EU and anti-immigration sentiment.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You need to stop believing everything you see on Twitter in that silly #pefb clique!
That tweet you've copy/pasted is laughably one sided, it's absolute nonsense!

If no.3 and no.4 didn't set alarm bells ringing about the validity of the list then you've got no hope.

3. We aren't using the Euro, we've still got the pound.
4. Exemption from Euro bailouts

https://fullfact.org/europe/will-uk-pay-future-eurozone-bailouts/

Btw it's FBPE Follow Back Pro Europe. I'm happy to have that hashtag on my Twitter handle, because I know what I'm talking about, and so do a lot of others who voluntarily use it.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I know, we were on a winner

Here's another (just so Billy can have another go)

https://twitter.com/petertimmins3/status/1015861065803059201

[tweet]1015861065803059201[/tweet]

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Utter UTTER Tory wankers. Need sweeping out of power straight away. It's all just a jolly jape to these braying oafs. Total ****s.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Very good summary.

One thing though, I personally know many lifelong Labour voters (who loath the Tory party), who voted Brexit and if anything their resolve has hardened. These include people in their 20's and 30's, some of whom are graduates. The main reason, hating the changes in the UK they saw before their very eyes in mass immigration, with a secondary reason a dislike of the EU apparatus.

They weren't converted by a £10B to the NHS battle bus. They were already converted.

In the quite liberal world of NSC, London and Brighton, I think we live in a bit of a bubble, not taking on board the radical changes in the UK aware from the media narrative. I welcome all the Poles, Somalis, etc who came to the UK to work, but there are huge swathes of the UK thoroughly angry about that.

It's a complex nation and world at this moment in history.

Oh, quite, I agree with all that.

Indeed it is as complex as it could be with young and old, labour and conservative, middle class and hoary handed sons of toil, examples of each who support remain or support Brexit, some mildly and some vehemently. Almost random.

In fact this randomness is absolutely the best reason for not Brexiting. Brexit is change. When there is no clear theme about the viewpoint, it is clear that everyone is guessing. I think I posted several years ago that Brexit was a choice between something we are familiar with and may not like, and the complete unknown. If I were out hiking and came across a dark void on a left fork and a bumpy path on the right fork, I would choose the path and not leap into the void.

I am not a gambler yet my whim to Brexit occasionally kicked in - late at night after lary drinking. But in the morning I was sober. Brexit is like a car won by drunkards in a late night bit of gambling, and they are now trying to drive it when sober the next morning, having written it off the night before. Sad really. Never attempt to drive a new bought car when drunk, especially if the previous owner has chained the bugger to a block of concrete.

 

[LlcoolJ]

But there's a critical additional recent reason for Corbyn's stance, touched on by [MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION].

Labour's shock 40% good showing at the last General Election, was analysed by a team of political scientists from across several universities. The swing they achieved was through mopping up millions of UKIP voters, by promising a full EU exit.

Corbyn and McDonnell are not going to throw their chances of winning the next election and the one after that, by ditching their explicit message to those key voters.

The election will not be decided in Islington, Hackney, Kemp Town and Lambeth, but in those key marginals in the Midlands and North, where there's very strong anti-EU and anti-immigration sentiment.

And there we have the crux of the matter. A bunch of idiots on either side, grasping for power, and never mind the destruction caused to the people who they are supposed to represent. What a shower of b******s.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

the only way you're staying in the EU is if you move across to the Dark side
regards
DR

I won't be able to move anywhere with Brexit, as it will stop free movement.

 

[portlock seagull]

Woo hoo.

Has Loathsome gone yet ?

Probably. Dyers gone too, mugged off apparently.

 

[GT49er]

Correct because it’s a stupid decision to leave.

Here we go again. Opinion (and a minority one at that) being put forward as fact. Sadly it's that same attitude among a vast majority of MPs (Lords and Commons alike), not to mention the very powerful Whitehall mandarins, that has made negotiating Brexit so difficult - the government has it's hands tied in the negotiations, not by the EU, but by the British remainers.
Don't blame May (and even more so don't blame the millions who voted leave) - the blame lies full square at the feet of those that have done their best to hamper our negotiators and sabotage the Brexit process from day one.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Donald Tusk keeping the door open

“Politicians come and go but the problems they have created for people remain. I can only regret that the idea of #Brexit has not left with Davis and Johnson. But...who knows?”

 

[portslade seagull]

I won't be able to move anywhere with Brexit, as it will stop free movement.

Move now then seeing as you hate the UK so much

 

[Hampster Gull]

Utter UTTER Tory wankers. Need sweeping out of power straight away. It's all just a jolly jape to these braying oafs. Total ****s.

Yep. It was these toffs who worked so hard to trick hard working people. They are a party heading for a big fall the next time they have a nerve to come to the country. Of course they will leave that as long as possible because they know they are in the shit

 

[LlcoolJ]

Here we go again. Opinion (and a minority one at that) being put forward as fact. Sadly it's that same attitude among a vast majority of MPs (Lords and Commons alike), not to mention the very powerful Whitehall mandarins, that has made negotiating Brexit so difficult - the government has it's hands tied in the negotiations, not by the EU, but by the British remainers.
Don't blame May (and even more so don't blame the millions who voted leave) - the blame lies full square at the feet of those that have done their best to hamper our negotiators and sabotage the Brexit process from day one.

You keep on believing that sweet cheeks. Repeating it as nauseam doesn't make it sound any less bonkers though.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I read 90% were pro-EU/voted Remain. There has been talk at Labour's upcoming conference of motions being put forward of a clear alternative to the Tories mess, by Momentum no less, which if voted on and carried would force the front bench's hand as they would become policy. Could be too little, too late, we'll see.

I see [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] has commented on this. I think it may be very interesting and paradoxical if labour's new (old) method of giving policy-making power back to conference, which is momentum and yoof dominated, leads to a pro-remain policy. Will Corbyn acceed to the will of the rank and file membership or will he offer 'brave' (contrary) leadership? OK, if momentum can mobilize a remain position and succed with it, I will be very impressed....and a bit surprised....and paradoxically it will make Corbyn look weak if his spin machine carries on in their hitherto sloppy fashion.

 

[GT49er]

You keep on believing that sweet cheeks. Repeating it as nauseam doesn't make it sound any less bonkers though.

You are seriously living in a cloud cuckoo land where Westminster MPs and Whitehall civil servants aren't doing their damdest to f*** up Brexit? - wow! That's some delusion!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Here we go again. Opinion (and a minority one at that) being put forward as fact. Sadly it's that same attitude among a vast majority of MPs (Lords and Commons alike), not to mention the very powerful Whitehall mandarins, that has made negotiating Brexit so difficult - the government has it's hands tied in the negotiations, not by the EU, but by the British remainers.
Don't blame May (and even more so don't blame the millions who voted leave) - the blame lies full square at the feet of those that have done their best to hamper our negotiators and sabotage the Brexit process from day one.

I can categorically state I, a sad snowflake remoaner, have no influence over the Brexit process. I'm touched, though, that you think I have

 

[Weststander]

Oh, quite, I agree with all that.

Indeed it is as complex as it could be with young and old, labour and conservative, middle class and hoary handed sons of toil, examples of each who support remain or support Brexit, some mildly and some vehemently. Almost random.

In fact this randomness is absolutely the best reason for not Brexiting. Brexit is change. When there is no clear theme about the viewpoint, it is clear that everyone is guessing. I think I posted several years ago that Brexit was a choice between something we are familiar with and may not like, and the complete unknown. If I were out hiking and came across a dark void on a left fork and a bumpy path on the right fork, I would choose the path and not leap into the void.

I am not a gambler yet my whim to Brexit occasionally kicked in - late at night after lary drinking. But in the morning I was sober. Brexit is like a car won by drunkards in a late night bit of gambling, and they are now trying to drive it when sober the next morning, having written it off the night before. Sad really. Never attempt to drive a new bought car when drunk, especially if the previous owner has chained the bugger to a block of concrete.

The world is moving lurching, in overall terms, to more nationalism.

Putin must be loving all this. Trump sticking two fingers up to old allies of the the USA, starting a trade war, the rise of mass anti EU sentiment in several European nations.

Unsettling.

Thank f**k for stuff like football and other interests, to restore sanity to one's mind.