[Politics] Brexit

[dazzer6666]

Easier said than done if you travel a lot, especially with the anachronisistic UK Passport Office.

Total bollocks there HT. My wife renewed hers online recently, very simple process and had the new one within 4 days. I had to go to the passport office to get a new one for myself last year because I didn’t have two unstamped pages together which was a visa requirement.......I had my new passport same day, and spent less than 5 mins in a queue.

 

[The Clamp]

Dear colleagues

Former ministers giving advice is as irritating as backseat driving. But next week’s meeting at Chequers on Brexit is critical if we are to make progress in the negotiations, so forgive me for chipping in with my thoughts.

The state of play is as follows. You’re divided as to what is more important: parliamentary sovereignty or access to EU markets. So you’re trying to have both. Meanwhile, you’ve said the UK will leave the customs union and the European Economic Area. Businesses are in the dark about how the Government would handle “no deal”, while Parliament has come to the view that it isn’t an option. As things stand, no deal appears to be off the table.

Sensing this, the EU is resolute in rejecting your approach, saying that we’re trying to enjoy the benefits of EU membership without being a member. When you sign a withdrawal treaty and agree to pay the divorce bill, the EU knows you will lose much of your leverage in talks. What’s more, the UK still won’t want to walk away in the next phase, as you’ve agreed that would mean either Northern Ireland, or perhaps the entire UK, being in a customs union — something parts of the Conservative Party would hate.

george-bridges17.jpg
George Bridges (AFP/Getty Images)
Put this together, if nothing changes, there’s a danger the UK will have to agree to a withdrawal treaty full of meaningless waffle on our future relationship with the EU. With so little leverage in the next phase, the negotiations would become a rout. Worse, uncertainty will drag on, damaging our economy.

How do you avoid this — and get a withdrawal treaty that clearly sets out the heads of terms of our future relationship with the EU?

You must compromise — among yourselves, then with Europe. Some of you feel passionately that restoring Parliamentary sovereignty is more important than keeping trade flowing. Others feel passionately the other way. But if you stay in your trenches, lobbing grenades at each other, the EU will be the winner.

Stop arguing only about goods, forgetting services, or diving into rabbit holes about technical issues. What’s needed is a package of measures, which I suggest has four parts.

First, make “no deal” a realistic alternative. I don’t want us to crash out, but if you cannot walk away, the EU will always have the advantage. Business needs to know what will happen at our borders, to legal contracts, to data-sharing, in aviation — the list is long. Not being open about your plans creates a vacuum that gets filled with fear.

Second, goods and services. In essence we should remain close to the EU on goods and agriculture but have independence to forge our destiny on services — which are 80 per cent of the economy.

I suggest you commit the UK to remaining completely aligned to EU regulations and standards covering goods and (note) agricultural products. This — together with zero tariffs and trusted trade schemes (to deal with rules of origin) — would help minimise friction in trade. And, by covering agricultural products, you would help address the issue of the Irish border.

Pledge to remain convergent on data- sharing, and recognise legal contracts and professional qualifications. Where appropriate, seek to remain party to EU agencies that underpin critical areas related to security, trade and infrastructure — such as pharmaceuticals and aviation. If necessary, remain under the European Court of Justice’s jurisdiction.

"I’d be wary of making any big concession if I did not also think we could walk away without a deal"
Next, financial services. The City is Europe’s investment banker. Put that together with the digital revolution, which requires new regulatory structures that hardly exist, and I’d argue that we should be, and have the muscle to be, masters of our own destiny.

What does that mean in terms of the negotiations? For many in the EU the City’s loss is the EU’s gain. Any deal the EU strikes will be done at the last minute, for a high price. It is likely to require the UK to remain almost completely aligned with future EU regulation if we wish to retain market access. So in the future, we would face a different version of the choice we face today: do we accept an EU rule, made in Brussels that might damage the City, or do we say “no” and lose market access?

We can certainly try to negotiate a mutual recognition agreement, but there is next to no chance of it happening, so we should be ready to fall back on the existing equivalence regime. If Ministers talk up the failings of that regime, once again, no deal becomes no option.

Third, tax, social, environmental and employment legislation. Michel Barnier, the EU negotiator, keeps saying that any agreement must be based on “common ground on competition and state aid, social and environmental standards, and guarantees against tax dumping”. If “common ground” means forcing the UK to remain in lock step with the EU, clearly this could place unacceptable restrictions on our Parliament — even if this Government has no intention (and no parliamentary majority) of lowering standards.

Fourth, uncontrolled immigration was a major cause of Brexit. It’s critical we take complete control of our borders. This does not mean pulling up the drawbridge. As a service-based economy, we must win the war for talent. So we should say we will continue to allow people from EU member states to come here freely to travel, to study and to stay for short periods, but we will ask those who wish to work and settle to comply with new visa requirements.

Is this perfect? No compromise ever is. I’d be wary of making any big concession if I did not also think we could walk away. But if you aren’t honest about the situation, and comprise now among yourselves, the game will be up. Good luck at Chequers.

Best wishes

George

George Bridges is a Conservative peer and former minister in the Department for Exiting the European Union

 

[pastafarian]

https://www.ft.com/content/601ea726-6fe6-11e8-852d-d8b934ff5ffa

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Reading this thread, as I do, with a large number of gobby nobbers blocked, it is like reading the transcript of a conversation between a police officer and a drunken teenager, but with all the bollocks of the latter deleted

Occasionally there is the interjection of a social worker, but this is usually met with more tiny fist waving judging by the deluged of blocked posters' waffle

Yep, this thread is going about as well as a drunken barbecue on a sun scorched caravan site

Keep counting all that money that Boris has saved us, lads, and do let me have my share. A MASSIVE cheque will soon be in the post, no?

Incidentally the only people shopping in my local Tesco today were Polish, Russian and Ukranian, on a day off from crop picking. Das Reich promised that we could boot all this lot out, or have them back on scharecropper contracts after The Fall. But....these guys are well paid, well dressed and well behaved. How exactly will we be able to re-employ them on ship's biscuits? I can smell the tang of rotting fruit n veg already. No deal, no plan, no f'ucking clue. Well done, dipshits. I hope you lose your jobs. You jellybrain clowns.

 

[The Clamp]

Reading this thread, as I do, with a large number of gobby nobbers blocked, it is like reading the transcript of a conversation between a police officer and a drunken teenager, but with all the bollocks of the latter deleted

Occasionally there is the interjection of a social worker, but this is usually met with more tiny fist waving judging by the deluged of blocked posters' waffle

Yep, this thread is going about as well as a drunken barbecue on a sun scorched caravan site

Keep counting all that money that Boris has saved us, lads, and do let me have my share. A MASSIVE cheque will soon be in the post, no?

Incidentally the only people shopping in my local Tesco today were Polish, Russian and Ukranian, on a day off from crop picking. Das Reich promised that we could boot all this lot out, or have them back on scharecropper contracts after The Fall. But....these guys are well paid, well dressed and well behaved. How exactly will we be able to re-employ them on ship's biscuits? I can smell the tang of rotting fruit n veg already. No deal, no plan, no f'ucking clue. Well done, dipshits. I hope you lose your jobs. You jellybrain clowns.

I don't have many on block. Pastafarian whom I blocked because he kept tagging me in his stupid rants, I do sometimes open his posts for a giggle when I see he is losing his shit and replying to everyone's posts but I'm always disappointed, I mean where do you go after accidentally posting a screen grab of your pornography bookmarks! Ha! Other than that I have one other nutjob on block.
It's not like you cannot guess what these idiots are posting anyway.

 

[pastafarian]

snowflake circle jerk alert

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Total bollocks there HT. My wife renewed hers online recently, very simple process and had the new one within 4 days. I had to go to the passport office to get a new one for myself last year because I didn’t have two unstamped pages together which was a visa requirement.......I had my new passport same day, and spent less than 5 mins in a queue.

Maybe your wife did get it within 4 days but if you look at the Passport website (I just checked again), applying online from abroad for a renewal, there is a very clear statement which says:

“Send us your old passport You need to pay the postage. Once we have your old passport, it should take 4 weeks to get your new passport.”

The postage alone, to the U.K. and back, will take more than 4 days.

And your comment about going to the passport office suggests you have not read all of my posts; otherwise you’ll see I know about this as I did it recently myself

 

[pastafarian]

Easier said than done if you travel a lot, especially with the anachronisistic UK Passport Office.

Total bollocks there HT. My wife renewed hers online recently, very simple process and had the new one within 4 days. I had to go to the passport office to get a new one for myself last year because I didn’t have two unstamped pages together which was a visa requirement.......I had my new passport same day, and spent less than 5 mins in a queue.

Maybe your wife did get it within 4 days but if you look at the Passport website (I just checked again), applying online from abroad for a renewal, there is a very clear statement which says:

“Send us your old passport You need to pay the postage. Once we have your old passport, it should take 4 weeks to get your new passport.”

The postage alone, to the U.K. and back, will take more than 4 days.

And your comment about going to the passport office suggests you have not read all of my posts; otherwise you’ll see I know about this as I did it recently myself

Umm…that’s because you live abroad, do you not realise you are not entitled to the same fast service living abroad as we are in this country. The system works fine for UK residents, it is not anachronisistic for us at all. You have chosen to live abroad, expect delays and stop trying to be so entitled. You cannot expect as someone living outside the UK union to have the same privileges as someone living inside the UK union…….time you learnt this harsh lesson.
If you want the privileges of getting a quick passport renewal that we enjoy, move back to the UK where these privileges are superior to where you live.

 

[Chicken Run]

Umm…that’s because you live abroad, do you not realise you are not entitled to the same fast service living abroad as we are in this country. The system works fine for UK residents, it is not anachronisistic for us at all. You have chosen to live abroad, expect delays and stop trying to be so entitled. You cannot expect as someone living outside the UK union to have the same privileges as someone living inside the UK union…….time you learnt this harsh lesson.
If you want the privileges of getting a quick passport renewal that we enjoy, move back to the UK where these privileges are superior to where you live.

If it helps the argument the UK Passport Agency could drive the passport to HT’s front door in downtown Berlin within 24 hours of application and he’d still find fault, it’s because secretly he doesn’t like much about the UK and wants it to fail at all costs!

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

View attachment 98242

https://www.ft.com/content/601ea726-6fe6-11e8-852d-d8b934ff5ffa

Thanks for posting. Interesting.

 

[portslade seagull]

Thanks for posting. Interesting.

And

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

So we are about to begin one of the most significant weeks not only in the relatively short history of Brexit but arguably in the long history of our country: on Friday we'll get the White Paper signed off. Can May actually deliver - not Brexit but a White Paper on which the most divided Cabinet in recent history can agree? The time for chiche and slogans (Brexit means Brexit etc) is now over and the vague fudges ('frictionless trade') also must be replaced by some specific. But what the feck will it be?

When you have a Cabinet Minister (Gove) not only tearing up a document that could have been the basis for policy but actually happy to have this publicly known it stretches credibility towards - beyond - breaking point.

As a Remainer I have no idea what my country will be standing for as expressed in said White Paper and I suspect that none of our Leavers are any better placed. And this, 2 years after the referendum is - with any sense of perspective - absolutely astonishing. I don't think anyone could have scripted - or perhaps even imagined - the post-Brexit narrative.

The political reality is that whatever they come up with will hit a brick wall in Brussels and quite possibly one in Westminster too - that's my guess for what it's worth (priced in Euros of course).

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

And

...............an impressively detailed case study but one which must be balanced against the rather larger counter-claims of the bigger players in business who employ a great many more people.

 

[pastafarian]

Thanks for posting. Interesting.

I dont really post anything to do with the economy, it has no bearing on why i chose to vote to Leave the EU. Economies fluctuate, they rise they fall, they adapt to circumstances.
I chucked it out there because If someone posts their business will suffer if we Leave the EU, it doesnt mean all businesses will suffer if we leave the EU. If someone posts their business will benefit if we leave the EU it doesnt mean all businesses will benefit from leaving the EU. At some point there needs to be a collective understanding that we are indeed leaving the EU and it is going to happen, and that everyone must work together as UK plc outside the Union to help their country. Currently we have a whole raft of people in denial this will even happen or worse trying to stop it happening. These people are not helping,but i do understand why they are trying to cause harm and scupper any productive deals........just dont understand how they could wilfully wish to hurt their own country or as a previous remain poster wished......wishing people to lose their jobs.....how fvcked is that

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I dont really post anything to do with the economy, it has no bearing on why i chose to vote to Leave the EU. Economies fluctuate, they rise they fall, they adapt to circumstances.
I chucked it out there because If someone posts their business will suffer if we Leave the EU, it doesnt mean all businesses will suffer if we leave the EU. If someone posts their business will benefit if we leave the EU it doesnt mean all businesses will benefit from leaving the EU. At some point there needs to be a collective understanding that we are indeed leaving the EU and it is going to happen, and that everyone must work together as UK plc outside the Union to help their country. Currently we have a whole raft of people in denial this will even happen or worse trying to stop it happening. These people are not helping,but i do understand why they are trying to cause harm and scupper any productive deals........just dont understand how they could wilfully wish to hurt their own country

We are not going to agree about much but your point reminded me (I'm an old git) of the campaign in the late 60's called 'I'm Backing Britain'. I can't remember much other than that I think it was a response to one of our periodic economic crises (possibly the 1967 devaluation) and it seemed to involved a lot of pretty girls in tight T-shirts encouraging us to 'Buy British'. Not sure if it made a jot of difference or how long it lasted but - who knows - maybe those T-shirts could be dusted off, although maybe not the original models.

 

[pastafarian]

We are not going to agree about much but your point reminded me (I'm an old git) of the campaign in the late 60's called 'I'm Backing Britain'. I can't remember much other than that I think it was a response to one of our periodic economic crises (possibly the 1967 devaluation) and it seemed to involved a lot of pretty girls in tight T-shirts encouraging us to 'Buy British'. Not sure if it made a jot of difference or how long it lasted but - who knows - maybe those T-shirts could be dusted off, although maybe not the original models.

There was a sky news poll prior to the vote. It asked why the remain vote insistence on sticking to the economy was not working . A huge majority of leave voters were saying their reasons for leaving were not economic ........yet remain pushed on with it.............and are still pushing on with it as a sole reason to ignore the vote
At some point you have to ask which prick chose to stick with the economic t-shirts and who is still choosing them now.................because it isnt working......tick tock as they say

 

[pastafarian]

If it helps the argument the UK Passport Agency could drive the passport to HT’s front door in downtown Berlin within 24 hours of application and he’d still find fault, it’s because secretly he doesn’t like much about the UK and wants it to fail at all costs!

This is what people with no sense of national belonging feel. If you cant even support your own country in the world cup like Herr T you are pretty much worthless......all you are is a statistic.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Reading this thread, as I do, with a large number of gobby nobbers blocked, it is like reading the transcript of a conversation between a police officer and a drunken teenager, but with all the bollocks of the latter deleted

Occasionally there is the interjection of a social worker, but this is usually met with more tiny fist waving judging by the deluged of blocked posters' waffle

Yep, this thread is going about as well as a drunken barbecue on a sun scorched caravan site

Keep counting all that money that Boris has saved us, lads, and do let me have my share. A MASSIVE cheque will soon be in the post, no?

Incidentally the only people shopping in my local Tesco today were Polish, Russian and Ukranian, on a day off from crop picking. Das Reich promised that we could boot all this lot out, or have them back on scharecropper contracts after The Fall. But....these guys are well paid, well dressed and well behaved. How exactly will we be able to re-employ them on ship's biscuits? I can smell the tang of rotting fruit n veg already. No deal, no plan, no f'ucking clue. Well done, dipshits. I hope you lose your jobs. You jellybrain clowns.

What a charming gent you are. Close minded and sweary !

 

[Spicy]

I dont really post anything to do with the economy, it has no bearing on why i chose to vote to Leave the EU. Economies fluctuate, they rise they fall, they adapt to circumstances.
I chucked it out there because If someone posts their business will suffer if we Leave the EU, it doesnt mean all businesses will suffer if we leave the EU. If someone posts their business will benefit if we leave the EU it doesnt mean all businesses will benefit from leaving the EU. At some point there needs to be a collective understanding that we are indeed leaving the EU and it is going to happen, and that everyone must work together as UK plc outside the Union to help their country. Currently we have a whole raft of people in denial this will even happen or worse trying to stop it happening. These people are not helping,but i do understand why they are trying to cause harm and scupper any productive deals........just dont understand how they could wilfully wish to hurt their own country or as a previous remain poster wished......wishing people to lose their jobs.....how fvcked is that

Well said. We have voted "out" so let's get on with it and all those remoaners in the cabinet, including that slimy specimen Gove, need to shut their gobs, unite and get behind the PM and the country.

 

[Gwylan]

... all those remoaners in the cabinet, including that slimy specimen Gove ....

Er, Gove was one of the most prominent Leave campaigners