[Politics] Brexit

[Stat Brother]

UK 'can't keep European Arrest Warrant after Brexit'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44532500

Good to know we'll be a safe haven...






...for Europe's criminals.

 

[The Clamp]

UK 'can't keep European Arrest Warrant after Brexit'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44532500

Good to know we'll be a safe haven...






...for Europe's criminals.

Yep. Where the idea that any UK government is going to suddenly clamp down on immigration has come from I don't know, We have had powers to get shot of most of the people we don't want here for decades and not one government has ever used that power. Admittedly they did try and catch up by throwing out a load of British Citizens who arrived with Windrush several decades ago but I'm not sure that counts.

 

[astralavi]

Yep. Where the idea that any UK government is going to suddenly clamp down on immigration has come from I don't know, We have had powers to get shot of most of the people we don't want here for decades and not one government has ever used that power. Admittedly they did try and catch up by throwing out a load of British Citizens who arrived with Windrush several decades ago but I'm not sure that counts.

yeah EU issuing temporary documents for migrant labour to pick fruit this summer, seems simple. At the same time UK loosing one billion from fruit agriculture due to immigration policy

 

[Two Professors]

The facts just hurt when it comes to the Brexit dividend that doesn't exist

https://news.sky.com/video/do-brexit-dividend-numbers-add-up-11408511

Wonder which group of people the Tories will hit to pay for it?

Hopefully they will start with people who use dodgy schemes to avoid paying their full due in income tax.

 

[Two Professors]

yeah EU issuing temporary documents for migrant labour to pick fruit this summer, seems simple. At the same time UK loosing one billion from fruit agriculture due to immigration policy

Losing one billion migrants sounds very careless.Are you sure?

 

[WATFORD zero]

It really is all over isn't it.

Firstly, the fantasists. It has finally dawned, even on [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION], [MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION], [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] and [MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION], that Theresa May failing to negotiate a deal doesn't equal their 'No deal'. Even their massive joint intellect has realised that 9 months is insufficient time to put in place borders, customs points and systems to manage the WTO rules and tariffs and that any failure to get a deal will actually mean further EU extensions on steadily worsening terms. Tick Tock Indeed.

Then we get to the 'Just get on with it' brigade. The Government can't even put together a white paper on Trade and Borders to start negotiations with the EU. Ask [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION], [MENTION=578]portslade seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION] what they think Theresa May should do differently or what they believe should be done on the border issue and the trade deal and they can't give a coherent solution. So what we are going to 'Get on with', nobody knows, least of all, them.

Lastly, we get to the people who seem to have a grasp of the implications of Brexit, [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] (Sorry gentleman, the very definition of damning with faint praise). Even they are reduced to avoiding the main issue with forays of whataboutism where they win the occasional argument.

Two years on from the vote, 9 months from us 'leaving' the EU what have we got ? Two possibilities

1/ Softest of soft Brexits, still in a customs union, freedom of movement, significant contributions, no influence whatsoever.

2/ Continued fudging/Further extensions of membership until another vote (GE or referendum).

But this is what we voted for, and this is the reality of where this total clusterf*** has got us,

But who could have seen this coming

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Great stuff.

I'm also sorry that I occasionally have to ask PPF a question, but that doesn't mean I am apologising to him!

But to turn to your reply. I really don't think I exaggerate, even when I am addressing your tendency toward absolutism and patronising tones.

And while I don't want to come over all forensic about a chat between two unimportant people in South Yorkshire you raise the subject so I'll stress that my friend wasn't 'pushing an agenda'. (Perhaps you and me are, but he wasn't.) We were talking over a meal about his town's travails and I asked what had replaced the pits and the glassworks as places around which people work. He said that nothing had and that the town and its people often feel abandoned by those who run the country. And that led naturally to his comments about the thinking that drove the local referendum result.

We must disagree about the spirit in which many people approached the polling booths on referendum day in Barnsley and Boston and many places in between. We also disagree on the way the human condition naturally makes people want to legitimise their actions (I don't think they need to in this case, by the way - wanting to give the government a whack is a perfectly OK philosophy in my book.).

And finally, the parliamentary arithmetic. I didn't mention it because that wasn't what we were talking about. I gave a thought on what sort of Brexit "the people" had signalled what they would be most happy with (bearing in mind virtually half said they didn't want a Brexit at all) and your response included the non-sequitur of a Westminster vote. I know what the Westminster vote was, and all the various pressures that drove it.

Having exchanged views and 'pleasantries' on numerous occasions can I assure you your tendency to misrepresent - strawman opinions is a regular occurrence.

Apologies I might not have made myself clear. I was referring to you being the one with an agenda, as you were claiming your long-standing friend was quite an important person, rather famous and involved with hundreds possibly thousands of people, many greeting him wherever he went. I assumed you added all this fluff to try and suggest his opinion was significant. Your further explanation where you say he is actually unimportant and just offering a vague view based on Barnsley feeling left behind since industries closed decades ago perhaps shows why personal anecdotes/opinions aren't usually considered as compelling evidence when trying to draw wider conclusions. As I said before there are numerous Barnsley residents online giving their reasons for voting for Brexit. Most of them mention immigration.

Boston! ... which has seen large-scale EU migration, the residents electing numerous UKIP councillors in response. Yet you still believe they went to the polls and voted for Leave by a landslide for issues mainly unrelated to membership of the EU.

Call me cynical but here was I thinking your ongoing need to question and misinterpret most leave voters motivations was just another avenue to try and delegitimise the referendum result. Which is why you immediately brought up the softest of Brexits as an option.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It really is all over isn't it.

Firstly, the fantasists. It has finally dawned, even on [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION], [MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION], [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] and [MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION], that Theresa May failing to negotiate a deal doesn't equal their 'No deal'. Even their massive joint intellect has realised that 9 months is insufficient time to put in place borders, customs points and systems to manage the WTO rules and tariffs and that any failure to get a deal will actually mean further EU extensions on steadily worsening terms. Tick Tock Indeed.

Then we get to the 'Just get on with it' brigade. The Government can't even put together a white paper on Trade and Borders to start negotiations with the EU. Ask [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION], [MENTION=578]portslade seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION] what they think Theresa May should do differently or what they believe should be done on the border issue and the trade deal and they can't give a coherent solution. So what we are going to 'Get on with', nobody knows, least of all, them.

Lastly, we get to the people who seem to have a grasp of the implications of Brexit, [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] (Sorry gentleman, the very definition of damning with faint praise). Even they are reduced to avoiding the main issue with forays of whataboutism where they win the occasional argument.

Two years on from the vote, 9 months from us 'leaving' the EU what have we got ? Two possibilities

1/ Softest of soft Brexits, still in a customs union, freedom of movement, significant contributions, no influence whatsoever.

2/ Continued fudging/Further extensions of membership until another vote (GE or referendum).

But this is what we voted for, and this is the reality of where this total clusterf*** has got us,

But who could have seen this coming

View attachment 97887

Not sure why, but this ..

.. came to mind.

 

[GT49er]

Then we get to the 'Just get on with it' brigade. The Government can't even put together a white paper on Trade and Borders to start negotiations with the EU. Ask [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION], [MENTION=578]portslade seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION] what they think Theresa May should do differently or what they believe should be done on the border issue and the trade deal and they can't give a coherent solution.

So, contributors to a football chat line are supposed to provide answers for what the government should do when faced with a difficult situation (deliberately made difficult by many MPs, Civil Service departments and the House of Lords; any desperate remoaners who share your opinions, in fact)? You expect NSCers to direct the Government's policy on how to manage Brexit and then - oh so arrogant - think that gives you the entitlement to mock them if they don't?

That is probably the most stupid suggestion on this thread - and with over 50,000 other posts in competition with it, that really is stupidity indeed. What a complete arse you're making of yourself.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not sure why, but this ..

.. came to mind.

I agree that's a fair summary of Theresa May's position

 

[WATFORD zero]

So, contributors to a football chat line are supposed to provide answers for what the government should do when faced with a difficult situation (deliberately made difficult by many MPs, Civil Service departments and the House of Lords; any desperate remoaners who share your opinions, in fact)? You expect NSCers to direct the Government's policy on how to manage Brexit and then - oh so arrogant - think that gives you the entitlement to mock them if they don't?

That is probably the most stupid suggestion on this thread - and with over 50,000 other posts in competition with it, that really is stupidity indeed. What a complete arse you're making of yourself.

So you voted for it but don't have any idea of what you voted for or the implications of Brexit. You were told, but you chose to put your fingers in you ears and shout' Project Fear'. You have no idea what should happen about the border and trade deal but think the Government should 'get on with it'.

Then it wasn't MPs, Civil Service, House of Lords or 'remoaners' who put us in this situation. It was you, nobody else. The least you could do is to take responsibility for what you've done.

Case rests M'lud.

 

[BigGully]

It really is all over isn't it.

Firstly, the fantasists. It has finally dawned, even on [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION], [MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION], [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] and [MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION], that Theresa May failing to negotiate a deal doesn't equal their 'No deal'. Even their massive joint intellect has realised that 9 months is insufficient time to put in place borders, customs points and systems to manage the WTO rules and tariffs and that any failure to get a deal will actually mean further EU extensions on steadily worsening terms. Tick Tock Indeed.

Then we get to the 'Just get on with it' brigade. The Government can't even put together a white paper on Trade and Borders to start negotiations with the EU. Ask [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION], [MENTION=578]portslade seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION] what they think Theresa May should do differently or what they believe should be done on the border issue and the trade deal and they can't give a coherent solution. So what we are going to 'Get on with', nobody knows, least of all, them.

Lastly, we get to the people who seem to have a grasp of the implications of Brexit, [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] (Sorry gentleman, the very definition of damning with faint praise). Even they are reduced to avoiding the main issue with forays of whataboutism where they win the occasional argument.

Two years on from the vote, 9 months from us 'leaving' the EU what have we got ? Two possibilities

1/ Softest of soft Brexits, still in a customs union, freedom of movement, significant contributions, no influence whatsoever.

2/ Continued fudging/Further extensions of membership until another vote (GE or referendum).

But this is what we voted for, and this is the reality of where this total clusterf*** has got us,

But who could have seen this coming

View attachment 97887

Righto, 'Mr No mark' been dribbling reading his own previous posts that no one cares about at 22.08

Go on tell us about the proposed time-lines that the government can't possibly meet and the lunch you had with a ITK colleague that you naused off during some self proclaimed high powered all you can eat buffet lunch for £6.99 ........

 

[WATFORD zero]

Righto, 'Mr No mark' been dribbling reading his own previous posts that no one cares about at 22.08

Go on tell us about the proposed time-lines that the government can't possibly meet and the lunch you had with a ITK colleague that you naused off during some self proclaimed high powered all you can eat buffet lunch for £6.99 ........

Calm down Petal. See last line of my post above yours

 

[Dave the OAP]

If the farmers got their way and the government brought in a seasonal visa scheme, so we could get crop pickers from the continenet( one sussex farmer just said that they get 30,000 mainly Romania pickers for the berry industry alone) would that appease the people who voted for no immigration/ migration or is that crossing the line and not what people voted for?

 

[Hamilton]

So, contributors to a football chat line are supposed to provide answers for what the government should do when faced with a difficult situation (deliberately made difficult by many MPs, Civil Service departments and the House of Lords; any desperate remoaners who share your opinions, in fact)? You expect NSCers to direct the Government's policy on how to manage Brexit and then - oh so arrogant - think that gives you the entitlement to mock them if they don't?

That is probably the most stupid suggestion on this thread - and with over 50,000 other posts in competition with it, that really is stupidity indeed. What a complete arse you're making of yourself.

It is the voters that have directed government policy. When the majority of MPs, Lords and Civil Servants wanted to remain (we'll put the reasons to one side for now), then you should not be surprised that efforts to leave are half-hearted. Hardly anyone in government, except a few dogmatic politicians, believe in what they are doing.

Proof that no government should turn to referendums. They are the last resort of despots. An escape for cowards.

However, we are where we are, and we've got to get on with reshaping our relationship with the EU. Let's go for a Brexit that is least damaging to the economy, because as someone once said, "it's the economy, stupid."

We'll have to live with our lack of influence in the world as a result of it all. Anyway, it'll probably be good to be like Norway. I like Norwegians. Perhaps people will even start to like us a bit more - except the Scots that is. They'll hate us even more. We may even win the Eurovision Song contest.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

So, contributors to a football chat line are supposed to provide answers for what the government should do when faced with a difficult situation (deliberately made difficult by many MPs, Civil Service departments and the House of Lords; any desperate remoaners who share your opinions, in fact)? You expect NSCers to direct the Government's policy on how to manage Brexit and then - oh so arrogant - think that gives you the entitlement to mock them if they don't?

That is probably the most stupid suggestion on this thread - and with over 50,000 other posts in competition with it, that really is stupidity indeed. What a complete arse you're making of yourself.

Couldn’t this argument be used to question the referendum itself? A series of complex issues and permutations were presented as a binary choice between two apparently feasible options.

I understand that you cannot expect everyone to be able to be able to understand many of the complex issues currently being discussed but people, particularly on the Leave side, could reasonably expect the Tories to have made a lot more progress than they have 2 years on and to expect better.

This lack of progress is not primarily down to pesky interventions by the Lords, etc but due to the fact that the government had absolutely no plan for implementing a Leave vote and because the simple Yes/No voting option was never going to give them enough data on people’s motivations and priorities to be able to understand what the will of the majority actually looked like in sufficient detail to develop a negotiating position.

 

[nicko31]

Joseph Goebbels, Hilter's propaganda minister


The nation and the government in Germany are one thing. The will of the people is the will of the government and vice versa. The modern structure of the German State is a higher form of democracy [ennobled democracy] in which, by virtue of the people’s mandate, the government is exercised authoritatively while there is no possibility for parliamentary interference, to obliterate and render ineffective the execution of the nation’s will

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

Echoes of Brexit in Chief Theresa May today I'm afraid.

On we go tonight, think the Tories will just get through thanks to the DUP on a bung and a few Labour Brexit loons

 

[Baldseagull]

So, contributors to a football chat line are supposed to provide answers for what the government should do when faced with a difficult situation (deliberately made difficult by many MPs, Civil Service departments and the House of Lords; any desperate remoaners who share your opinions, in fact)? You expect NSCers to direct the Government's policy on how to manage Brexit and then - oh so arrogant - think that gives you the entitlement to mock them if they don't?

That is probably the most stupid suggestion on this thread - and with over 50,000 other posts in competition with it, that really is stupidity indeed. What a complete arse you're making of yourself.

Classic Leaver thinking, it's the remainers making it difficult.

 

[CHAPPERS]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-related-tax-revenue-after-brexit-mark-boleat

A leading City figure whose former role involved governing the Square Mile has said Brexit could result in the loss of 75,000 jobs and up to £10bn in annual tax revenue.

Sir Mark Boleat, who was chairman of the City of London Corporation until last year, said a seepage of jobs from the capital was already underway and that the political rows over a deal or no-deal outcome was now “irrelevant” to City chief executives.

Banks including JP Morgan, Lloyds, Barclays, HSBC and Goldman Sachs have already established subsidiaries in other EU countries, or moved part of their business because EU law requires them to be legally compliant from the day the UK leaves.

“It is no longer contingency planning. If you are running a bank it is non-negotiable. The regulators won’t allow it,” he said.

In an interview with the Guardian before a keynote speech on Wednesday at the Cass Business School in London, Boleat said the City would not die as the financial capital of Europe but would be damaged by Brexit.

“These moves are bad for London, but they are also bad for the EU because they will make financial markets less efficient,” he said. “Financial services will be fine, but I would say if the City has 80% of international business now, in future it will have maybe 60%.”

Boleat said Brexit has prompted expensive and unwelcome processes and the damage would be seen over the decade to come.

“This is a 10-year operation. In the short term it won’t be noticeable in terms of staff. Banks won’t be putting out press releases saying they are moving some of their operations because of Brexit because they don’t want the publicity. They are just getting on with it.


“Moving costs millions. Banks have had teams of 100 working on Brexit. It is an expensive process. You have to identify which city to go to, applying for a [banking] licence costs millions, then you have to find the IT staff, find accommodation.”

He also believes the government is in such disarray that the Brexit deal will be pushed back to December, leaving business planning elsewhere perilously close to exiting the EU.

In his address, Boleat will say he does not think financial services will get a special passporting deal to allow them to continue pan-European services from London and that banks are already past that moment of truth, whatever politicians think.

“Those who suggested that some business would move were accused of scaremongering,” he will say before listing 15 major banks and financial services who have already set up on the continent or Dublin.

He will quote a report by the Oliver Wyman consultancy that says if the UK strikes a deal giving full market access, the impact on the City would be modest, the equivalent of 3,000-4,000 jobs and a loss of £500m in tax a year to the Exchequer.

“At the other end of the spectrum if the UK had no special status with the EU, now the most likely option, the industry would lost £18bn a year in revenue which would put 31,000 to 35,000 jobs at risk along with £3.5bn to £5bn in tax revenue.”

Add the knock-on effect for related industries and the loss of entire business units, there is an estimated further losses of £14bn to £18bn in revenue and 34,000 to 40,000 jobs and £5bn in tax.

Asked whether the government was aware of the daily bleed of financial services to the rest of the EU, Boleat said: “Not enough, that’s the worry. It needs business to talk to MPs, not to give their view on Brexit, but to explain to them ‘this is what I am having to do because of Brexit’. This is not scaremongering, this is reality.”

 

[nicko31]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-related-tax-revenue-after-brexit-mark-boleat

No that has to be project fear, I read in the Daily Mail there will be a Brexit dividend..