[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

One thing that amuses me about Brexit supporters is the way they like to claim that people are calling them 'old, thick, right-wing, racist'. A good example above. Nowhere in the post being responded to did I remotely suggest any of these things. (I plead guilty to the charge that I think they are wrong.) Such comments don't represent my fall-back position or my final retort and just for the record I have gone through life with virtually no sense of entitlement at all.

It's a long thread but as far as my clouded memory serves I don't think you ever have called any leaver those things. Indeed you tend to put up a decent argument. I think GT49er was being somewhat generic in his statement. If you happen to have a few hours to kill this afternoon I suggest you go back over some of the old posts in this thread and you'll see that in particular Clamp, Man of Sussex, HT, Mental Lenny and Plooks have used those insults directly - some of them on many occasions. On a number of occasions a rather vile name has also been used. I guess it just shows they believe they're losing the debate and can't prevent us leaving the EU

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I quite liked ' desperate angst' haha. Theatrical much? Its good to see after the initial reports clearly suggested quite a lot of xenophobia, and racism connected with the vote, the Brexiteers 'Fall back position' is now, I was just against the EU bureaucracy.

Being against the EU bureaucracy is a good enough position for me.
1) Annual cost of European Parliament = £1.3bn. ( Annual combined cost of Commons and Lords = £462m )
2) Annual cost of MEP ( 754 ) = £1.79M ( Annual cost of MP = £590, 000 / Peer = £130,000 )
3) MEP salary = £80k ( British MP = £66K )
4) Over 4000 EU officials earning six figure salaries.
5) Protectionism.( In particular Public Procurement ) Fraud and corruption abounds, costing the EU anything between 179bn Euro and 990bn Euro a year.( Results of study commissioned by European Parliament.....pretty narrow estimate! )
6 ) Accountability. Cannot get a set of accounts signed off for years and years. The auditors realise the level of criminality involved and wash their hands of it.
All this cost and there are no proper debates. No one can introduce a Private Members Bill. All they do is act as a rubber stamp for the unelected European Commission and its proposals. The present model is discredited. It is dedicated to ever closer union but has amassed power at the expense of member states and created dangerous levels of unemployment in its Southern members. Forget xenophobia and racism, this is the type of bureaucracy that I and millions of others can do without.

 

[daveinprague]

Yeah Millions now. Thats the point.

 

[Klaas]

It's a long thread but as far as my clouded memory serves I don't think you ever have called any leaver those things. Indeed you tend to put up a decent argument. I think GT49er was being somewhat generic in his statement. If you happen to have a few hours to kill this afternoon I suggest you go back over some of the old posts in this thread and you'll see that in particular Clamp, Man of Sussex, HT, Mental Lenny and Plooks have used those insults directly - some of them on many occasions. On a number of occasions a rather vile name has also been used. I guess it just shows they believe they're losing the debate and can't prevent us leaving the EU

I pop in to this thread from time to time to observe the great big food fight. One thing that I've noticed is that he will CONSTANTLY beat that particular drum. It's just another way of creating their own 'bloody metropolitan elite' shaped chip on shoulder.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Yeah Millions now. Thats the point.

Ok...I will re-phrase it...." this is the type of bureaucracy that I can do without "

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Being against the EU bureaucracy is a good enough position for me.
1) Annual cost of European Parliament = £1.3bn. ( Annual combined cost of Commons and Lords = £462m )
2) Annual cost of MEP ( 754 ) = £1.79M ( Annual cost of MP = £590, 000 / Peer = £130,000 )
3) MEP salary = £80k ( British MP = £66K )
4) Over 4000 EU officials earning six figure salaries.
5) Protectionism.( In particular Public Procurement ) Fraud and corruption abounds, costing the EU anything between 179bn Euro and 990bn Euro a year.( Results of study commissioned by European Parliament.....pretty narrow estimate! )
6 ) Accountability. Cannot get a set of accounts signed off for years and years. The auditors realise the level of criminality involved and wash their hands of it.
All this cost and there are no proper debates. No one can introduce a Private Members Bill. All they do is act as a rubber stamp for the unelected European Commission and its proposals. The present model is discredited. It is dedicated to ever closer union but has amassed power at the expense of member states and created dangerous levels of unemployment in its Southern members. Forget xenophobia and racism, this is the type of bureaucracy that I and millions of others can do without.

Makes me sick looking at these figures. I don't know how any one can say this is value for money, yet every year they create new rules and more ways to extract money from member countries.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Appreciate that it's not just about money and that there are many flaws in the EU's internal structures. Notwithstanding this our GDP: $2.565 trillion (nominal; 2017). If leaving the EU loses us 0.1% of that then it pays for quite a few Eurocrats. And of course the Treasury's estimate put the forecast losses far, far higher than 0.1%.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Appreciate that it's not just about money and that there are many flaws in the EU's internal structures. Notwithstanding this our GDP: $2.565 trillion (nominal; 2017). If leaving the EU loses us 0.1% of that then it pays for quite a few Eurocrats. And of course the Treasury's estimate put the forecast losses far, far higher than 0.1%.

Once we actually get into trade negotiations, the so-called 'divorce bill' will pale into insignificance. The figures involved in the trade deal are truly eye-watering.

Good job we are going into these negotiations from a position of strength, after our performance in Phase 1

 

[ManOfSussex]

It's a long thread but as far as my clouded memory serves I don't think you ever have called any leaver those things. Indeed you tend to put up a decent argument. I think GT49er was being somewhat generic in his statement. If you happen to have a few hours to kill this afternoon I suggest you go back over some of the old posts in this thread and you'll see that in particular Clamp, Man of Sussex, HT, Mental Lenny and Plooks have used those insults directly - some of them on many occasions. On a number of occasions a rather vile name has also been used. I guess it just shows they believe they're losing the debate and can't prevent us leaving the EU

Careful up there on your high horse - It's all swings and roundabouts on this cluster**** of a thread.

(By the way - I'm assuming, so I could be wrong, but your regular reference to someone in Japan using the phrase 'spacktard' on the internet seems to indicate that it may have caused you some distress. Try and muddle through it - worse things get said at a taxi rank on a Friday night. Chin up. )

 

[Two Professors]

Careful up there on your high horse - It's all swings and roundabouts on this cluster**** of a thread.

(By the way - I'm assuming, so I could be wrong, but your regular reference to someone in Japan using the phrase 'spacktard' on the internet seems to indicate that it may have caused you some distress. Try and muddle through it - worse things get said at a taxi rank on a Friday night. Chin up. )

Somebody was slapped very heavily on the wrist for using that rather vile word on a different thread,but as the mod concerned supports remain,no action on this thread.Mental Lenny,or whatever it's called has also used 'window-licker' with some very weird GIFs to emphasise it.Bit like some other posters who only post abuse and sarcasm,without contributing anything to a 'Brexit' thread.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Somebody was slapped very heavily on the wrist for using that rather vile word on a different thread,but as the mod concerned supports remain,no action on this thread.Mental Lenny,or whatever it's called has also used 'window-licker' with some very weird GIFs to emphasise it.Bit like some other posters who only post abuse and sarcasm,without contributing anything to a 'Brexit' thread.

I stopped trying to keep up with who's said what to whom anymore on this thread a long time ago.

Hope all's well with you in the 2nd city and you're enjoying the weather though.

 

[Two Professors]

I stopped trying to keep up with who's said what to whom anymore on this thread a long time ago.

Hope all's well with you in the 2nd city and you're enjoying the weather though.

Yeah,was great but now the garden is getting watered,so getting ready to go out.Hope Hastings is still fine!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Mortgage costs hit two-year high
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/21/mortgage-rate-highest-two-years

Us Remainers told you this would happen.

#CallingBrexitCorrectly

 

[The Clamp]

Yep, and warnings aplenty of how much the cost of food and other items will soar if we leave with no deal, which if May has her way, we will. So she can blame her monumental failure on those "unreasonable" folk at the EU.

 

[larus]

Mortgage costs hit two-year high
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/21/mortgage-rate-highest-two-years

Us Remainers told you this would happen.

#CallingBrexitCorrectly

Oh dear. Maybe even basic economics is beyond your grasp - sigh.

I’ll try to dumb it down for you. As the article says, interest rates have risen by 0.25% an expectations of a hike in UK base rate. Now, why do you think interest rates rise and fall?

Interest rates rise in an economy to reduce demand and also to pay a return to savers (as their money is, in general, lent to other people/companies).

Interest rates fall in an economy to stimulate demand by getting people to borrow more.

The problem with Western economies since 2008 is they have been on life-support with QE. QE has inflated asset prices in a large number of counties and has transferred more wealth from the poor to the wealthy.

So, the fact the the UK is expected to increase rates soon (probably won’t happen in May as Mark ‘Incompetent’ Carney has been talkink the economy down again), but will happen soon(ish) I expect.

Balance that with the powerhouse of the EUROZONE and still ruining QE to stimulate it’s economy. Note, this is more than just Germany, it’s the Eurozone, as I know you constantly like to talk about Germany as if it’s representative of the EU/Eurzone.

 

[The Clamp]

Somebody was slapped very heavily on the wrist for using that rather vile word on a different thread,but as the mod concerned supports remain,no action on this thread.Mental Lenny,or whatever it's called has also used 'window-licker' with some very weird GIFs to emphasise it.Bit like some other posters who only post abuse and sarcasm,without contributing anything to a 'Brexit' thread.

Just like your pal Loony using the phrase "Buzztard". Very selective whom you pull up on this kind of thing aren't you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Oh dear. Maybe even basic economics is beyond your grasp - sigh.

I’ll try to dumb it down for you. As the article says, interest rates have risen by 0.25% an expectations of a hike in UK base rate. Now, why do you think interest rates rise and fall?

Interest rates rise in an economy to reduce demand and also to pay a return to savers (as their money is, in general, lent to other people/companies).

Interest rates fall in an economy to stimulate demand by getting people to borrow more.

The problem with Western economies since 2008 is they have been on life-support with QE. QE has inflated asset prices in a large number of counties and has transferred more wealth from the poor to the wealthy.

So, the fact the the UK is expected to increase rates soon (probably won’t happen in May as Mark ‘Incompetent’ Carney has been talkink the economy down again), but will happen soon(ish) I expect.

Balance that with the powerhouse of the EUROZONE and still ruining QE to stimulate it’s economy. Note, this is more than just Germany, it’s the Eurozone, as I know you constantly like to talk about Germany as if it’s representative of the EU/Eurzone.

I understand all of this. And to follow your themes I’ll really really dumb my statement down for you: we said mortgages would be more expensive period. And what do we now know, mortgages are more expensive. You can waffle (simplistically) all you want but you can’t change this simple fact.

PS you have overlooked a multitude of other reasons why interest rates fluctuate. One might even think you don’t really know what you’re talking about....or have just looked up something on Google.

 

[The Clamp]

Oh dear. Maybe even basic economics is beyond your grasp - sigh.

I’ll try to dumb it down for you. As the article says, interest rates have risen by 0.25% an expectations of a hike in UK base rate. Now, why do you think interest rates rise and fall?

Interest rates rise in an economy to reduce demand and also to pay a return to savers (as their money is, in general, lent to other people/companies).

Interest rates fall in an economy to stimulate demand by getting people to borrow more.

The problem with Western economies since 2008 is they have been on life-support with QE. QE has inflated asset prices in a large number of counties and has transferred more wealth from the poor to the wealthy.

So, the fact the the UK is expected to increase rates soon (probably won’t happen in May as Mark ‘Incompetent’ Carney has been talkink the economy down again), but will happen soon(ish) I expect.

Balance that with the powerhouse of the EUROZONE and still ruining QE to stimulate it’s economy. Note, this is more than just Germany, it’s the Eurozone, as I know you constantly like to talk about Germany as if it’s representative of the EU/Eurzone.

You really are fast becoming NSC's biggest mouth, aren't you. Have a read of this before you post another load of tripe.

https://www.economicshelp.org/macroeconomics/monetary-policy/effect-raising-interest-rates/

As you can see, higher interest rates are a significant step on the way to the recession I predicted and am still being mocked for. We shall see. We shall see.


Interest rates and recession
Rising interest rates can cause a recession. The UK has experienced two major recessions, caused by a sharp rise in interest rates.

uk-base-rates-79-17

In 1979/80, interest rates were increased to 17% as the new Conservative government tried to control inflation (they pursued a form of monetarism). In 1980 and 81, the UK went into recession, due to the high-interest rates and appreciation in Sterling. (see Recession 1981) Interest rates also rose to 15% to tackle high inflation of the late 1980s (and also protect value of Pound in ERM.

 

[larus]

You really are fast becoming NSC's biggest mouth, aren't you. Have a read of this before you post another load of tripe.

https://www.economicshelp.org/macroeconomics/monetary-policy/effect-raising-interest-rates/

Hey, how’s the recession? Interest rate rise in a recession eh!. Wow, who’d have thought.
For someone of obviously low intellect, you just have throw insults around.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You really are fast becoming NSC's biggest mouth, aren't you. Have a read of this before you post another load of tripe.

https://www.economicshelp.org/macroeconomics/monetary-policy/effect-raising-interest-rates/

As you can see, higher interest rates are a significant step on the way to the recession I predicted and am still being mocked for. We shall see. We shall see.

Quite.