[Politics] Brexit

[5ways]

He's the sort of leader we can only dream of, and he's definitely taking advantage of Britain's faltering influence on the stage.

Interesting he admits France would vote for a Frexit given the choice, sensibly they won't be given the choice to a dumb binary question

I actually think he was just being polite here and this is being misinterpreted. I think he said something along the lines of "if the conditions were the same" - I don't think he thinks conditions are /were the same. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I understand now. Unfortunately, like all of us with Brexit, I have been forced to take a side; I can’t have the UK and the EU anymore. I have always seen myself as an EU citizen first and foremost, I chose to live in the EU and on balance support most of their direct and indirect values. My passport also states European Union at the top. Seems only natural to me to stick with what I believe in as doing something different would be wrong. After all, you are no doubt doing exactly the same? Supporting one thing over another does not necessarily mean you are anti something though.

www.azquotes.com/author/5626-Joseph_Goebbels
regards
DR

 

[5ways]

Unsurprisingly not an adequate answer to the question I posed. Hardly a narrow interpretation ..' take back control' was the main theme of the campaign and as previously mentioned all sides (including the EU) made it clear a vote to leave meant leaving the internal/single market.

Even better in the 2017 General election both main parties set out their Brexit policy in their manifestos clarifying this matter further. They got over 80% of the vote whereas parties saying we should stay in the single market and/or have a second referendum came nowhere.

You have the good sense to distant yourself from the far left loons I hope your not in the same camp as the undemocratic Loon in Chief the Impster. His position being a referendum mandate should be ignored because the issue is too complex and a General election mandate doesn't count because voters vote for a range of issues. It's pretty obvious the only vote that some will ever accept is the one that agrees with their pov.

Untrue.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Ignoring a referendum and a General election mandate is quite a reasonable defintion when it comes to summing up an undemocratic loon. Who is this 'most' you talk of ... shirley you really mean people that only agree with you?

'Ignoring' is your word and in my view an emotive and a badly-chosen one - the referendum has led to the current negotiations and I simply suggest that the public is consulted again when the implications of those negotiations is known. I have suggested before that we agree to disagree on this but you seem unable to stop leaping up and down on the touchline, squeaking your funny little chants.

But you ask a specific question. No, I don't mean people that only agree (sic) with me. Most people, Remainers and Leavers alike, understand what is meant by a hard Brexit. In the spectrum of Brexit shorthand definitions it is the opposite of a soft Brexit. Your suggestion that only Remainers use the term is a bit odd.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Untrue.

Which bit specifically?

 

[nicko31]

Just took part in a feasibility study of moving a customer to Luxembourg out of the City of London.( not a small company either) That is the fifth one I have been involved in the last month ( since Christmas) Looks like this is starting to gain momentum. Better start chucking more money in my pension as it may be needed sooner than I had thought.

I can well believe this, I have a relative who high up in one of the accountancy firms, all I've heard is a slow drip away in UK investment in the last 18 months. Personally I'm not a big fan of financial services but it is what sustains the UK standard of living.

Since the Brexit vote the world economy has done better than predicted, as a result its been a soft landing for us so far and there is a bit of growth. But we are in a fools paradise lagging behind our competitors when our economy like our biggest trading partner should be booming.

Permanent damage has already been done to both our standing in the world and business, but its not too late. We will end up with a poor deal, and now we're opened the pandoras box the public best decide whether we go ahead or press reset

 

[JC Footy Genius]

'Ignoring' is your word and in my view an emotive and a badly-chosen one - the referendum has led to the current negotiations and I simply suggest that the public is consulted again when the implications of those negotiations is known. I have suggested before that we agree to disagree on this but you seem unable to stop leaping up and down on the touchline, squeaking your funny little chants.

But you ask a specific question. No, I don't mean people that only agree (sic) with me. Most people, Remainers and Leavers alike, understand what is meant by a hard Brexit. In the spectrum of Brexit shorthand definitions it is the opposite of a soft Brexit. Your suggestion that only Remainers use the term is a bit odd.

The Uk electorate speak and you continually ignore them. Your onging attempt to dance on the head of that pin and continually falling off is painful to watch .. the underlying motive is transparent. The 'implications' of the negotiated settlement will ony truly become apparent in the meduim/long term. There will be numerous chances for parties saying i told you so or time to rejoin in future post Brexit General elections. But as we both know your not interested in seeing the future implications you just want to keep asking the question until you get the answer you want, will you ever be honest about this?

Agree to disagree but you seem happy to talk about me or do a chuckle brothers routine about my appearance and respond to my posts.

You ask 100 people what hard or soft brexit means you will get many different answers.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Insinuating large numbers, I was questioning this. Sounds like another scare story. Loads of jobs in most firms have been shipped abroad mainly India to save money. Funny how none of that has been plumped on Brexit

To be fair, if I told you it was 1 person or ten thousand, you wouldn't believe me as you are so set in your views and you have read it in the papers, which is your right and it us up to you. Suffice it to say, the reports we are working to run into hundreds of pages per client.

We have outsourced to India and all places across the world as it is cheap. This is different as it is not the cheap option they are after, it is the access they have now that they do not want to lose. But of course you know better.

 

[beorhthelm]

Just took part in a feasibility study of moving a customer to Luxembourg out of the City of London.( not a small company either) That is the fifth one I have been involved in the last month ( since Christmas) Looks like this is starting to gain momentum. Better start chucking more money in my pension as it may be needed sooner than I had thought.

rather late for feasibility stage isnt it? not my job but i work adjacent to project managers involved in office relocations across europe and it can take 12 months to move, once the decision to move has actually been made and destination chosen. are people banking on a transistion period they can put plans in to effect, being hopeful they can complete moves, or going through the motions?

 

[Hampster Gull]

Unsurprisingly not an adequate answer to the question I posed. Hardly a narrow interpretation ..' take back control' was the main theme of the campaign and as previously mentioned all sides (including the EU) made it clear a vote to leave meant leaving the internal/single market.

I was responding to our conversation, what was the question missed? There was only one question on the paper, I don’t recall “and take back control”. That is such a nebulous term anyway, it shows you don’t fully understand we are in a global economy now. There were many reasons why people voted as they did. The vote was to leave the EU, not to leave the EU in the way JC requires. Anyway, all the signs are we are staying put, don’t you think?

 

[Baldseagull]

www.azquotes.com/author/5626-Joseph_Goebbels
regards
DR

"There was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyway always yield to the **er, and this will always be "the man in the street." Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology."

Dominic Cummings clearly studied your man.

 

[ManOfSussex]

"There was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyway always yield to the **er, and this will always be "the man in the street." Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology."

Dominic Cummings clearly studied your man.

"The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous."

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I was responding to our conversation, what was the question missed? There was only one question on the paper, I don’t recall “and take back control”. That is such a nebulous term anyway, it shows you don’t fully understand we are in a global economy now. There were many reasons why people voted as they did. The vote was to leave the EU, not to leave the EU in the way JC requires. Anyway, all the signs are we are staying put, don’t you think?

In what reality do you think a campaign all about 'taking back control' /leaving the EU meant staying inside the internal /single market = continued ECJ primacy, continued Free movement etc?

What would your opinion be if the government had interpreted a hypothetical Remain win by signalling they would then leave the single market and customs union and refuse to cooperate on a pan European level .. because there was only one question on the paper? The vote was to Remain not Remain in the way Hampster Gull or the vast majority of Remain voters required. I'm guessing a bit miffed.

No I'm still certain we are leaving on the specified date.

 

[Hampster Gull]

"The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous."

View attachment 93372

Looking at the ridiculousness of that strap line we must be perceived as imbeciles by our European friends (not the EU for our more rabid NSC posters, just ordinary people).

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The Uk electorate speak and you continually ignore them. Your onging attempt to dance on the head of that pin and continually falling off is painful to watch .. the underlying motive is transparent. The 'implications' of the negotiated settlement will ony truly become apparent in the meduim/long term. There will be numerous chances for parties saying i told you so or time to rejoin in future post Brexit General elections. But as we both know your not interested in seeing the future implications you just want to keep asking the question until you get the answer you want, will you ever be honest about this?

Agree to disagree but you seem happy to talk about me or do a chuckle brothers routine about my appearance and respond to my posts.

You ask 100 people what hard or soft brexit means you will get many different answers.

Para 1. We don't 'both know' what I'm not interested in. I know. You think you know, just as you seem to think you know everything.
Para 2. Absurdly over-sensitive reaction to a friendly exchange.
Para 3. Contrived nonsense: the fundamental characteristics of a 'hard Brexit' are perfectly well known.

 

[Hampster Gull]

In what reality do you think a campaign all about 'taking back control' /leaving the EU meant staying inside the internal /single market = continued ECJ primacy, continued Free movement etc?

What would your opinion be if the government had interpreted a hypothetical Remain win by signalling they would then leave the single market and customs union and refuse to cooperate on a pan European level .. because there was only one question on the paper? The vote was to Remain not Remain in the way Hampster Gull or the vast majority of Remain voters required. I'm guessing a bit miffed.

No I'm still certain we are leaving on the specified date.

The Brexit campaign jumped all over the place, it was a populist campaign, say what was needed to win. The posting above just shows it, get the £350m per week we send the the EU and spend it on the NHS. Completely ridiculous. A lie. But it would have won votes. That’s why they campaigned on it. For sure they campaigned on many other things and many voted to close the border, some because they despise the EU, some because they don’t like people who aren’t British etc and with various combinations. But we were all asked to vote on staying or leaving the EU, not a narrow interpretation of any of the above. And that doesn’t necessitate leaving the single market or the customs union. And another reality check, I am legally right, a concept populists often find challenging.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Para 1. We don't 'both know' what I'm not interested in. I know. You think you know, just as you seem to think you know everything.
Para 2. Absurdly over-sensitive reaction to a friendly exchange.
Para 3. Contrived nonsense: the fundamental characteristics of a 'hard Brexit' are perfectly well known.

Sentence 1 I'm only going by what you post. When will the implications of a negotiated settlement be fully known?

Sentence 2 Not sensitive just pointing out the contradictions.

Sentence 3 Cobblers, Hard Brexit is a made up concept by Remoaners and varies depending on the level of hysterical grizzling.

 

[BigGully]

The Brexit campaign jumped all over the place, it was a populist campaign, say what was needed to win. The posting above just shows it, get the £350m per week we send the the EU and spend it on the NHS. Completely ridiculous. A lie. But it would have won votes. That’s why they campaigned on it. For sure they campaigned on many other things and many voted to close the border, some because they despise the EU, some because they don’t like people who aren’t British etc and with various combinations. But we were all asked to vote on staying or leaving the EU, not a narrow interpretation of any of the above. And that doesn’t necessitate leaving the single market or the customs union. And another reality check, I am legally right, a concept populists often find challenging.

Be fair you have never quite got over this, I recall your post shortly after the referendum 'soon to be a general election and a pro EU party re: the Lib Dems will win and reverse the vote, heard it here first', it was a quite outlandish post that was driven by your total inability to come to terms with the result and a clear indication of not having any sense of how and why people voted for Leave, 18 months down the line and you still are hoping for a Remain outcome, dream on.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Be fair you have never quite got over this, I recall your post shortly after the referendum 'soon to be a general election and a pro EU party re: the Lib Dems will win and reverse the vote, heard it here first', it was a quite outlandish post that was driven by your total inability to come to terms with the result and a clear indication of not having any sense of how and why people voted for Leave, 18 months down the line and you still are hoping for a Remain outcome, dream on.

good spot but come on, the Lib Dem’s have been shot since they messed up the coalition, a long way to go for them before they sniff power again. Even a rabbit remainer would know that wasn’t going to happen!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The Brexit campaign jumped all over the place, it was a populist campaign, say what was needed to win. The posting above just shows it, get the £350m per week we send the the EU and spend it on the NHS. Completely ridiculous. A lie. But it would have won votes. That’s why they campaigned on it. For sure they campaigned on many other things and many voted to close the border, some because they despise the EU, some because they don’t like people who aren’t British etc and with various combinations. But we were all asked to vote on staying or leaving the EU, not a narrow interpretation of any of the above. And that doesn’t necessitate leaving the single market or the customs union. And another reality check, I am legally right, a concept populists often find challenging.

And back to the bus. Both campaigns used misleading messages. The central leave theme was take back control, be it sovereignty, regulation, laws, trade deals,immigration or money. Staying in the single market means we must have free movement, ECJ primacy, full regulatory compliance, no independent trade deals which is why both the leave and Remain side made clear a vote to Leave would mean exiting the single market. This is also why the Government and opposition went into the last election saying the same. Speaking of a Reality check .. we are leaving the EU, the single market and the customs union so not sure why we are arguing about it.