[Politics] Brexit

[Pretty pink fairy]

Hoodwinked? You didn't understand what you were voting for?

common agricultural policy wasn't it originally ?
regards
DR

 

[Thunder Bolt]

no it's not, how do you judge good or poor in the long term,, no the vote was leave and that's how it's going to be, you need to face up to reality sharpish .
regards
DR

Reality is the referendum was not legally binding but advisory. Article 50 can be stopped at any time according to the author of it in the Lisbon treaty.

 

[portslade seagull]

Indeed, rough sleeping is on the rise everywhere it seems, it's standard practice to see people asleep in doorways nowadays when it was quite a rare occurrence in my youth. Its a downward spiral of despair, people can't get jobs because they have no address and even if they get a job they could never afford a mortgage so are trapped in poor quality rented accommodation. Currently we are either the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the World but the difference between the haves and have-nots grows ever wider, when the boss of Persimmon is set to receive a £100 Million bonus and you see such a huge increase in homelessness and the use of food banks, surely society is broken.

Successive governments in the 80's and 90's yes both Con and Lab to blame for this. Selling the council housing stock and not replacing them. Hardly a fault of Brexit

 

[Thunder Bolt]

common agricultural policy wasn't it originally ?
regards
DR

That was only a part of it.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Reality is the referendum was not legally binding but advisory. Article 50 can be stopped at any time according to the author of it in the Lisbon treaty.

loving your optimism, HAVE A LOVELY CHRISTMAS
regards
DR

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Indeed, rough sleeping is on the rise everywhere it seems, it's standard practice to see people asleep in doorways nowadays when it was quite a rare occurrence in my youth. Its a downward spiral of despair, people can't get jobs because they have no address and even if they get a job they could never afford a mortgage so are trapped in poor quality rented accommodation. Currently we are either the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the World but the difference between the haves and have-nots grows ever wider, when the boss of Persimmon is set to receive a £100 Million bonus and you see such a huge increase in homelessness and the use of food banks, surely society is broken.

Homelessness is down to the Tories, high rents, marital splits, kids leaving Care homes with nowhere to go, and lack of rental properties from housing associations. We have record employment so it's not a lack of jobs.


It is nothing to do with Brexit.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

loving your optimism, HAVE A LOVELY CHRISTMAS
regards
DR

And you. Don't drink too much.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

A factual response that you can't avoid no matter how much you try.

There you go again ... referendums are a terrible idea, too simplistic for complicated decisions and General Elections don't count either because they are too vague as we don't really know what specfic manifesto commitments the voters are endorsing. Clearly the only vote worth having is at a time of your choosing which ends up agreeing with your pov when all your complaints will no doubt evaporate.... brilliant.

Finally, we know the EU doesn't really much care about the democratic mandate of a member state government or referendum result (see Greece) and will rename a constitution to avoid democratic scrutiny.

So you also support parties reneging on their manifesto commitments .. very democratic.

In a previous life I organised media relations courses for my employer's managers. One of the things that was taught was the need to always respond to a question with an articulate reply, delivered with confidence. It didn't need to have anything to do with the question but it did have to be forceful. Your tendency to go off on one reminded me of those days. There's not much point trying to have a conversation with a one-way shouter but I will respond to your last point. Yes, I do support the notion of political parties reacting to changing circumstances and developing opinions. You hate it I know, and I understand why, but I think it's a good and healthy thing.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

After all the dust has settled and the final deal decided that everyone can see and understand then another referendum must be given to see if the people agree with it, only at the end will we be able to see what we have got and do we still want to go ahead with it. It would be stupid to leave if the deal is poor but if we get what we want and some trade deals with other countries on the table I may even change my mind and vote to leave but as it stands to leave would be suicide.
That is democracy.

Quote of the thread (in recent times). I also think that whichever government is in power when the clock strikes 12 (and despite everything this is likely to be May's conservatives) only suicidal lunatics would push through a 'plan' that will more than likely harm the UK, and obviously so. Even though I was a (7/10) remainer, like you I would happily vote leave if a smart deal were put to the people (out of respect to the majority who voted leave).

I sympathize with the likes of @Pretty pink fairy who want leave at any cost, and believe (understandably) that this is what the vote was about (and I think they are right, actually - there were no codicils on the ballot paper). However I suspect their bravura is missplaced. As I said, no sane government would opt to damage the UK, eyes wide open. Surely?

 

[pb21]

Pertinent, not the cake

 

[BigGully]

Any country wanting to join the EU has to be accepted by every country. Each one has a veto and it only takes one veto to prevent it. Therefore GB must have agreed for the Baltic countries to be part of it.
Why do you think Russia is so against the EU? Estonia, Latvia etc feel safer with the EU, than they do with Putin exercising his muscles in Ukraine.

You're kidding me, it just happens with hardly a murmur from anyone, we have been drifting and accepting, it seems you disregard Cameron giving some assurance to Turkey, there wasn't uproar but by all accounts when this is now cited we are told 'it was never going to happen, dont be a silly racist', you must be a fool if you cannot see the shift within the EU electorate.

You are supporting an organisation that you cannot possibly know the future path, yet you use the same argument to try and disqualify Brexit.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You're kidding me, it just happens with hardly a murmur from anyone, we have been drifting and accepting, it seems you disregard Cameron giving some assurance to Turkey, there wasn't uproar but by all accounts when this is now cited we are told 'it was never going to happen, dont be a silly racist', you must be a fool if you cannot see the shift within the EU electorate.

You are supporting an organisation that you cannot possibly know the future path, yet you use the same argument to try and disqualify Brexit.

No I am not kidding you. Every country has the power of veto. Look it up.

 

[GT49er]

After all the dust has settled and the final deal decided that everyone can see and understand then another referendum must be given.

No it doesn't. You would love it, no doubt (but would only accept it if you won) but 'must' doesn't enter into it.

 

[nicko31]

View attachment 92173

View attachment 92174

Seems Greens departure is good timing for DD he can go to ground just in time for Christmas

 

[nicko31]

I'm not gloating, I feel let down and despair about the future. Over then last 10 years my wages have dropped in real terms like many others while my working conditions have worsened. As I approach what should be my last 10 working years before me all I see is the worsening of all the things we once held dear as a nation. Just as I approach the time when I will increasingly need care from the NHS it starts to crumble, at a time when I should be putting aside money for my retirement I find there is little spare. I am in fact an old dog and any trick now would have to be a new one.

Just as it seemed we were beginning to turn the corner after ten years of cuts and stagnation it looked like things were going to get a little better globally and nationally, along came the Brexit vote. All I can see is that this has pushed us backwards again another 5 years at least. We are cutting our own throats by making it harder to trade with our biggest trading partners and probably going to erode our hard fought working rights.

As another small chipping away of things you take for granted, Mrs V had her last day at school yesterday before the Christmas break( although she has gone in today to prep the classroom for next term ) and was told the water cooler in the staff room has to go in order to save money and on the train home, she had a carrier bag of presents and cards from her children stolen. Merry Christmas.

I have never worked in the pubic sector but it really feel for them. I think there was light at the end of the tunnel after 7 years of pain. All Brexit has done is create a continued decline in real term wages at a time when there should have been hope in a strong global economy. Instead of hope we hsve despair

 

[BigGully]

No I am not kidding you. Every country has the power of veto. Look it up.

You do not look up critical political decisions, it's in your face no hiding place, there was nearly a captiulation to the EU's political aspiration until the referndum.

Get over it.

 

[The Upper Library]

I have worked for in the NHS for the last 23 years and have felt very honoured to do so but the last 5 years have been the hardest and most draining I have known. From a personal point of view my salary has remained the same for the last 9 years whilst the work load however has risen exponentially. The increased demands of paperwork means that I cannot carry out the clinical work I am trained to do. I regularly work an extra 5 - 10 hours a week (unpaid )just to keep up with these demands.
I give the NHS in its current form another 3 years before it collapses.
Brexit will potentially be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
The whole pack of lies trotted out about Brexit allowing £350 m a week to be given back to the NHS was at the time obviously nonsense to anyone working in the NHS. It is infact utterly insulting to an institution that symbolises what is supposedly great about this country. Once the NHS goes (and it will) what do we then have to be proud about our apparently great nation. What will make us wave our little flags.


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[BigGully]

I have worked for in the NHS for the last 23 years and have felt very honoured to do so but the last 5 years have been the hardest and most draining I have known. From a personal point of view my salary has remained the same for the last 9 years whilst the work load however has risen exponentially. The increased demands of paperwork means that I cannot carry out the clinical work I am trained to do. I regularly work an extra 5 - 10 hours a week (unpaid )just to keep up with these demands.
I give the NHS in its current form another 3 years before it collapses.
Brexit will potentially be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
The whole pack of lies trotted out about Brexit allowing £350 m a week to be given back to the NHS was at the time obviously nonsense to anyone working in the NHS. It is infact utterly insulting to an institution that symbolises what is supposedly great about this country. Once the NHS goes (and it will) what do we then have to be proud about our apparently great nation. What will make us wave our little flags.


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Have you not had any pay progression through your pay levels ?

 

[The Upper Library]

Have you not had any pay progression through your pay levels ?

I am at the top of my band scale (band 7) and have been since 2009 - so no.
I am potentially getting a promotion in the summer but this is not definite- if this happens then I can start getting increments.
Each pay band only has about 6 incremental levels - once you reach the top of that band your salary is effectively frozen. The opportunity to progress within the NHS is very limited once you get to band 7 (my current level)


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[Gwylan]

You're kidding me, it just happens with hardly a murmur from anyone, we have been drifting and accepting, it seems you disregard Cameron giving some assurance to Turkey, there wasn't uproar but by all accounts when this is now cited we are told 'it was never going to happen, dont be a silly racist', you must be a fool if you cannot see the shift within the EU electorate.

You are supporting an organisation that you cannot possibly know the future path, yet you use the same argument to try and disqualify Brexit.

We've scarcely been "drifting and accepting", the UK has been one of the prime movers for the expansion of the UK, it's been a policy of PMs from Thatcher right through to Blair. It was seen initially as a way to welcome former Communist countries to the west but, in reality, it was to counteract the strength of the France/Germany axis.

And Turkey was never going to happen because Turkey itself lost interest in joining the EU. It's been on the candidate's list for 30 years but made little attempt to meet the conditions. And now, Erdogan has moved even further away from EU membership. It could happen, but there'd need to be a seismic change in Turkey's policies. And if that were to happen, Turkey is at least 20 years away from becoming a member. And that's even before we look at the thorny issue of North Cyprus and the Greek veto.

Anyone who voted leave because they thought Turkey was about to join the EU is, quite frankly, an idiot.