[Politics] Brexit

[Two Professors]

Totally ludicrous. Relentlessly downhill?

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=EU+GDP+vs+US+GDP+vs+China+GDP

Is that where the OBR comedy routines from?Try this from a more reputable source.

 

[Two Professors]

Never have an opinion that might challenge a Brexiteer on the NSC BrExit Thread, they believe they know better than anyone else, regardless

If we do,we must have learned from you lot.But we leave the smugness to remainers,as it's such a repulsive trait.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

But May does not have control of her cabinet, she is possibly, probably, the most ineffectual PM this great country has had in modern times. If that is her list she is no further forward now than she was over 10 months ago. And even leavers on here who thought they voted for a more protectionist UK still think that the case.

Theresa May's 12-point Brexit plan
Provide certainty about the process of leaving the EU
Control of our own laws
Strengthen the Union between the four nations of the United Kingdom
Maintain the Common Travel Area with Ireland
Brexit must mean control of the number of people who come to Britain from Europe
Rights for EU nationals in Britain and British nationals in the EU
Protect workers' rights
Free trade with European markets through a free trade agreement
New trade agreements with other countries
The best place for science and innovation
Co-operation in the fight against crime and terrorism
A smooth, orderly Brexit

None of us know the true state of current negotiations but it does seem the citizens rights issues are mainly settled apart from voting rights which the EU side are resisiting. All EU laws/regulations are being transffered into UK law so there is no diminishing of workers rights. We are eager to start trade talks asap it's the EU side holding that up. There has been progress but it's hard to judge how much as there is so much spin with numerous anti Brexit agendas clouding the debate.

 

[5ways]

Is that where the OBR comedy routines from?Try this from a more reputable source.

View attachment 91458

I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make. The EU is 50% of our exports and EU GDP is roughly equivalent to US GDP, the EU will remain in this top tier for decades. We need to trade with our giant neighbour next door on the most favourable terms possible. Also 'abysmal prospects' I think is really not accurate at all. Myanmar is growing at 20% a year but how much British beef do they want? How many fold up biycles? Less than Belgium I bet.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Wow. You must have been the king of the playground.

I was reminded of one of Cloughie's comments the other day. "Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

I think I'll leave you to it.

That's disappointing news. I'll miss your non-partisan, open-minded, always play the ball not the man contributions.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I can certainly tell you about how disadvantaged the UK economy was before we joined the common market, and then kicked off the economic malaise of the post-war period.

Mmmm so you can't provide examples of any 'major concessions' that Canada or Japan made but for some reason think we will need to do this.

Not one specific case of the UK securing a better trade outcome through our EU membership either.

 

[GT49er]

Ah, we are back on the Brexit lines such as the Netherlands would follow us out (they didn’t), the French would follow us out (quite the opposite, they are emboldened), the Greeks would bring down the Euro and the Eu (nope again). Now the EU will die because Britain is to leave in theory. Hmm, cried wolf a bit too much me thinks

Yes, the remain campaign certainly did, didn't it. Probably why they lost.....................................

 

[Hampster Gull]

Yes, the remain campaign certainly did, didn't it. Probably why they lost.....................................

Agree it was a very poor campaign GT49

 

[Lincoln Imp]

That's disappointing news. I'll miss your non-partisan, open-minded, always play the ball not the man contributions.

...but only for this evening.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

...but only for this evening.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Agree it was a very poor campaign GT49

...GT49's point was not only that the Remain campaign was poor (which it was) but also that it indulged in wolf-crying (which it did). In fairness though, Leave indulged in just as much scaremongering (Turkey, terrorist attacks and immigrant rapes for example). A big difference was that Leave scaremongering wasn't branded in the way that Johnson so brilliantly did to the Remain campaign's efforts.

 

[Two Professors]

I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make. The EU is 50% of our exports and EU GDP is roughly equivalent to US GDP, the EU will remain in this top tier for decades. We need to trade with our giant neighbour next door on the most favourable terms possible. Also 'abysmal prospects' I think is really not accurate at all. Myanmar is growing at 20% a year but how much British beef do they want? How many fold up biycles? Less than Belgium I bet.

EU 50% of our exports?It hasn't been that since 2014 unless you can prove different.If our 'giant neighbour next door' was more than the big contributors to the EU economy Germany,Holland,France,I might be bothered,but Malta,Luxembourg,and the rest,naah.That article someone posted on here showed the state of banks in the EU.Doesn't matter how you disguise it,NPL's etc,bad debt is bad debt and the EBA don't seem to have done a great deal about it.Some harsh decisions to be made on the Euro,or it will drag the whole mess down.

 

[GT49er]

Agree it was a very poor campaign GT49

OK, so that's the one thing we agree on for 2017. I wonder what 2018's will be?

 

[GT49er]

But May does not have control of her cabinet, she is possibly, probably, the most ineffectual PM this great country has had in modern times.

Yes, it does often look as if she's trying to wade through treacle. Agreed? (God knows what sort of biased goggles you have on if you can't!)

Ineffective? Maybe, partially anyway, but - heavens to Murgatroyd, am I really defending a Tory PM, a species I have despised for over 50 years? - are you not able to recognise why she appears to be trying to wade through treacle? Her predecessor, Call me Dave, called a referendum - binding, he clearly stated, although some remainers still deny the existence of his final pro-referendum speech to the nation - so 30 odd million voted on a binding referendum to leave the EU. Call me Dave, of course, in his pomp and arrogance, didn't believe he could possibly lose, but lose he did, and being the sort of bloke he is, he ran away, leaving TM with as difficult a job to do as any previous UK PM.
A huge majority of the MPs and others in the Westminster bubble don't want to leave the EU - and they can, will, and are doing their best to f*** up Brexit. Even a high majority (about 70%) of her own party are remainers - so she has a near impossible job to do to carry out her responsibilities as defined by the 2016 referendum, and her duties to the people of this country who voted, by a majority, to leave.
Yes, she's finding it difficult. So would you. And although I'm no supporter of conservative PMs, I doubt very much if you could do better.

 

[Jim in the West]

 

[5ways]

Mmmm so you can't provide examples of any 'major concessions' that Canada or Japan made but for some reason think we will need to do this.

Not one specific case of the UK securing a better trade outcome through our EU membership either.

How would you give an example of the securing a better trade deal through our EU membership when all of our trade deals since we joined have been through the EU membership? The best example is the situation we were in before we joined - behind French and German living standards.

Canada made concessions on agriculture for example. But the more important point is CETA is largely about good not services, we are a service-based economy. The situation where Wallonia can draw out concessions points to the fact that it will be incredibly hard to draft and agree the thing on a near-term timeframe. Any trade deal with the US or China will want us to provide 'services' in exchange to opening up our market to foreign food and agriculture (those cholrinated chickens) or Chinese manufacturings.

 

[Hampster Gull]

...GT49's point was not only that the Remain campaign was poor (which it was) but also that it indulged in wolf-crying (which it did). In fairness though, Leave indulged in just as much scaremongering (Turkey, terrorist attacks and immigrant rapes for example). A big difference was that Leave scaremongering wasn't branded in the way that Johnson so brilliantly did to the Remain campaign's efforts.

For me the remainers campaign was really poor, focusing on negatives of leaving not all the positives of staying, the leavers over played their hand on the negatives of the Union but had the fortune to coincide with the populist movement. We have lost a unique deal with the EU, which no one else had. Fascinating to watch how difficult it is for the leavers now, at least those having to navigate through this, let’s hope they do a deal better than their talent deserves

 

[Hampster Gull]

Yes, it does often look as if she's trying to wade through treacle. Agreed? (God knows what sort of biased goggles you have on if you can't!)

Ineffective? Maybe, partially anyway, but - heavens to Murgatroyd, am I really defending a Tory PM, a species I have despised for over 50 years? - are you not able to recognise why she appears to be trying to wade through treacle? Her predecessor, Call me Dave, called a referendum - binding, he clearly stated, although some remainers still deny the existence of his final pro-referendum speech to the nation - so 30 odd million voted on a binding referendum to leave the EU. Call me Dave, of course, in his pomp and arrogance, didn't believe he could possibly lose, but lose he did, and being the sort of bloke he is, he ran away, leaving TM with as difficult a job to do as any previous UK PM.
A huge majority of the MPs and others in the Westminster bubble don't want to leave the EU - and they can, will, and are doing their best to f*** up Brexit. Even a high majority (about 70%) of her own party are remainers - so she has a near impossible job to do to carry out her responsibilities as defined by the 2016 referendum, and her duties to the people of this country who voted, by a majority, to leave.
Yes, she's finding it difficult. So would you. And although I'm no supporter of conservative PMs, I doubt very much if you could do better.

That is a small step towards a vote for the Tories, Closet Tory sympathiser.

The EU referendum was not legally binding, no matter what Dave the Man may have said. An inconvenient legal truth. Her responsibilities are also not defined by the referendum, directly at least, but her election manifesto does commit us if she decides to impliment it.

She is wading through treacle, yes she is. The biggest tin of Lyle’s Black Treacle can we have ever seen. That was part of why some people voted remain, this is going to get ugly in many different ways. We are only seeing the tip of the iceberg now. She is not a PM of any note, she cannot carry her party as one, it’s a shambles and she is weak.

I am Toried out, they have done too much damage to this country already, I will leave it to you to take up the mantle

 

[The Clamp]

If we do,we must have learned from you lot.But we leave the smugness to remainers,as it's such a repulsive trait.

He writes, typing one of the smuggest posts on the entire thread. You really are clueless ****wit.

 

[Baldseagull]

View attachment 91453

Oh dear,this seems to have upset our remoaning snowflakes,and I thought they liked Winston Churchill quotes!
Anybody who still thinks the EU is the world's biggest economy,or biggest market,even before we have left must be stupid enough to work for the OBR,IFS,LSE,or Uncle Tom Cobbley-what a load of old bolox.If the Irish keep kicking up a fuss,they had better not come to us with a begging bowl next time their tin-pot economy goes bust!And good luck trying Trump as well!

There are 3 giant economies, US, China and EU. You can measure the economies in different ways and get different results. If you factor in cost of living, China comes out top, EU second, US third. If you don't factor in cost of living, then EU is top, US second, China third.