[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

Employment agencies would get a far greater retention figure if they started treating recruits decently.Most seem to be staffed by people who have been forced to leave estate agencies because they're so vile,home care providers in particular.Whilst acknowledging severe staff shortfalls in some NHS areas,I read in our local health centre that 456 EU nurses left,but 924 non-EU arrived last month,so it hopefully will improve.

I had heard that it costs the NHS an average of £1500 more to recruit from outside of the EU, than from within.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Massive issues right now on the capital, major flu outbreak and things will be at breaking post this winter

30 Consultant Psychiatrists short for NHS England just in Mental Health Services for example - that's having a massive impact and making it impossible to hit the non-urgent waiting times target referral in some areas. They can't just be trained up in 5 minutes.

 

[Two Professors]

I had heard that it costs the NHS an average of £1500 more to recruit from outside of the EU, than from within.

I expect we will be able to afford it when we get our £350 million back!

 

[Two Professors]

On account of the guy being a Mr. Cormack, not Mr. McCormack, there not being a publication called the Northumberland Times as far as I can find, and the fact that the words you posted are identical to part of a report posted in May 2016 in the Cumberland News, would you provide a link?

may 2016 articlehttp://www.cumberlandnews.co.uk/business/DMACKs-500-job-tyre-factory-could-be-built-in-southern-England-not-Carlisle-506caf83-690c-493b-b99f-06847eb1d446-ds

It really makes more sense when you see that there were investors pre referendum, and now there are not.

Sorry,can't find it now.Must have been fake news,part of a Facebook post.

 

[Two Professors]

30 Consultant Psychiatrists short for NHS England just in Mental Health Services for example - that's having a massive impact and making it impossible to hit the non-urgent waiting times target referral in some areas. They can't just be trained up in 5 minutes.

Sorry,but what has that got to do with flu?With age comes confusion!

 

[ManOfSussex]

Sorry,but what has that got to do with flu?With age comes confusion!

With flu? Nothing. I never said it did. The NHS is at breaking point though through staffing issues that wont be addressed without recruitment from abroad - that's what it's got to do with. A shortage of consultants in mental health services and delays in appointments is not a laughing matter - it can be life or death.

 

[BigGully]

With flu? Nothing. I never said it did. The NHS is at breaking point though through staffing issues that wont be addressed without recruitment from abroad - that's what it's got to do with. A shortage of consultants in mental health services and delays in appointments is not a laughing matter - it can be life or death.

I always suspect that the NHS is either in crisis or near to it no matter when, the scale and costs nearly always dictates that.

If for one moment I accept you breaking point scenario and its effect on patients, would you accept that it is unsatisfactory to rely so much on overseas recruitment on such a critical department, you wouldn't want to rely that on other critical departments such as defence or security so why would you want to nearly demand it with the NHS.

Surely the template to rely so much on foreign recruitment has made it more vulnerable to circumstances whether that's political or otherwise not only here in the UK but in those countries where recruitment is sourced, surely the preferred outcome isn't to keep promoting the virtues of foreign recruitment but to train more UK qualified technicians.

 

[Simster]

I always suspect that the NHS is either in crisis or near to it no matter when, the scale and costs nearly always dictates that.

If for one moment I accept you breaking point scenario and its effect on patients, would you accept that it is unsatisfactory to rely so much on overseas recruitment on such a critical department, you wouldn't want to rely that on other critical departments such as defence or security so why would you want to nearly demand it with the NHS.

Surely the template to rely so much on foreign recruitment has made it more vulnerable to circumstances whether that's political or otherwise not only here in the UK but in those countries where recruitment is sourced, surely the preferred outcome isn't to keep promoting the virtues of foreign recruitment but to train more UK qualified technicians.

In the same ways as we can't make cars as cheaply as Indonesia, we can't train nurses as cheaply as they can in, say, the Philippines where the export of nurses is a vital source of income.

Besides, there are plenty of sectors you could apply your argument to, yet we have always chosen not to. We have allowed European governments to own our public transport. How about power, which is no less vital than the NHS? The Chinese and French are massive stakeholders here.

 

[BigGully]

In the same ways as we can't make cars as cheaply as Indonesia, we can't train nurses as cheaply as they can in, say, the Philippines where the export of nurses is a vital source of income.

Besides, there are plenty of sectors you could apply your argument to, yet we have always chosen not to. We have allowed European governments to own our public transport. How about power, which is no less vital than the NHS? The Chinese and French are massive stakeholders here.

Stakeholding isnt the same, investment in the energy or transport sector isn't the same as the ebb and flow of labour that might effect key sectors.

If the French and Chinese have invested in our critical industries here in the UK but then also included their own citizens coming here and being the main uniquely skilled workforce running them then that would also make us vulnerable and supposedly similar to the NHS but they dont.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Meanwhile, given that EU/UK trade talks should get going soon, a mere 18 months after glory day, perhaps we should be thinking about our good friends the Americans. Today I see the US Commerce Secretary is "hopeful a deal can be struck relatively quickly". Mind you, the U.K. will have to retain free access to EU financial markets and drop our objections to chlorinated foodstuffs - and presumably the associated poor US animal welfare standards.

I suppose some of our Brexit romantics think it's better having the Yanks telling us what to do than being part of a collective European policy making process. And even if we do do what they tell us Mr Ross points out that the fact that the US and UK economies are both so heavily services dependant could be a problem.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I always suspect that the NHS is either in crisis or near to it no matter when, the scale and costs nearly always dictates that.

If for one moment I accept you breaking point scenario and its effect on patients, would you accept that it is unsatisfactory to rely so much on overseas recruitment on such a critical department, you wouldn't want to rely that on other critical departments such as defence or security so why would you want to nearly demand it with the NHS.

Surely the template to rely so much on foreign recruitment has made it more vulnerable to circumstances whether that's political or otherwise not only here in the UK but in those countries where recruitment is sourced, surely the preferred outcome isn't to keep promoting the virtues of foreign recruitment but to train more UK qualified technicians.

Demanding it? No point me demanding overseas recruitment. The people of Lincolnshire voted leave so I assume not having an A&E department in Grantham overnight for 18 months due to staff shortages was exactly what they wanted - http://www.granthamjournal.co.uk/ne...tham-a-e-24-hours-a-day-in-december-1-8233152

Your rather romantic post Brexit, Miss Marple Britain notion sounds lovely though. I assume the medical students will have to pick fruit in Kent whilst studying too? When's that reboot all happening though? - the training, the course places, the clinical placements - there's a lot of gaps to fill already, as well as replace those who've left and ongoing shortages in the medium to long term if we're not allowed to recruit from abroad, coupled with those who don't want to come from abroad now going forward, plus adapt quickly to the demographic changes and needs within The NHS and the various conditions relating from those - ageing and growing population, obesity, mental health, to name but a few. Obviously no British NHS staff ever take sabbaticals from the profession (like my Mother did) or go and work abroad somewhere nicer or leave it due to things like the all time low morale within it that is happening now and the scrapping of the NHS bursary will have NHS care assistants and others who previously entered nurse training as mature students flocking to get into £50,000 of student debt to become a NHS nurse as well.

I don't see your preferred outcome template being the answer anytime soon I'm afraid.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Meanwhile, given that EU/UK trade talks should get going soon, a mere 18 months after glory day, perhaps we should be thinking about our good friends the Americans. Today I see the US Commerce Secretary is "hopeful a deal can be struck relatively quickly". Mind you, the U.K. will have to retain free access to EU financial markets and drop our objections to chlorinated foodstuffs - and presumably the associated poor US animal welfare standards.

I suppose some of our Brexit romantics think it's better having the Yanks telling us what to do than being part of a collective European policy making process. And even if we do do what they tell us Mr Ross points out that the fact that the US and UK economies are both so heavily services dependant could be a problem.

everything you post is a problem tick tock, tick tock,tick tock
regards
DR

 

[Titanic]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41893598

In the year after the UK voted to exit the European Union, there was a significant increase in the population's feeling of wellbeing, official statistics show.

 

[Two Professors]

With flu? Nothing. I never said it did. The NHS is at breaking point though through staffing issues that wont be addressed without recruitment from abroad - that's what it's got to do with. A shortage of consultants in mental health services and delays in appointments is not a laughing matter - it can be life or death.

You were answering a post about a flu outbreak in London causing Armageddon,or something like it.This NHS stuff is getting so tiresome now-nothing like real people's experiences in the real world outside Remania!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41893598

In the year after the UK voted to exit the European Union, there was a significant increase in the population's feeling of wellbeing, official statistics show.

But the graphs you show reveal that a continuing and long-term rise in feelings of wellbeing started to ease off around the time the referendum was announced and haven't recovered their previous momentum. Anxiety levels, previously falling, are now on the rise. What's your point?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

everything you post is a problem tick tock, tick tock,tick tock
regards
DR

What, even that time when I said that you were one of the Brexit side's more intelligent posters?

 

[Blue3]

I always suspect that the NHS is either in crisis or near to it no matter when, the scale and costs nearly always dictates that.

If for one moment I accept you breaking point scenario and its effect on patients, would you accept that it is unsatisfactory to rely so much on overseas recruitment on such a critical department, you wouldn't want to rely that on other critical departments such as defence or security so why would you want to nearly demand it with the NHS.

Surely the template to rely so much on foreign recruitment has made it more vulnerable to circumstances whether that's political or otherwise not only here in the UK but in those countries where recruitment is sourced, surely the preferred outcome isn't to keep promoting the virtues of foreign recruitment but to train more UK qualified technicians.

Having worked in the NHS for over 30 years I agree that it has been in near constant state of crisis and having given it much thought have a list of problems and means to resolve these:

Problem. Cure.

Drugs developed to make money and not to cure people drug companies lead the NHS. Nationalise the Drug companies.
All Nurses need a degree as such this excludes thousands of caring individuals. Not all nurses need a degree bring back auxiliary nurses reducing the need for overseas staff.
Doctors and Dentests are outside the NHS as such work under different rules and pay. End this anomaly.
Private Companies milking The NHS for profit. End contracts including PFI.
The NHS and Social Services constantly impacting upon each other's budgets. Combine both under one budget.
Old infrastructure many buildings were built in the 1800s not fit for purpose. Build as required.
Lack of funds. The money is there it's how we choose to spend it (HS2, Trident, Aircraft Carriers, Tax loopholes).
Undermining of our NHS by the Establishment for profit. Education so that we all understand what we have.
NHS Trusts in competition with one another. A national stratagem working together.
NHS is a political football never ending reorganisation. Make it independent the Government should only be responsible for the funding not its political direction.

 

[ManOfSussex]

You were answering a post about a flu outbreak in London causing Armageddon,or something like it.This NHS stuff is getting so tiresome now-nothing like real people's experiences in the real world outside Remania!

I was answering a post to someone else on the overstretched and unsustainable work levels of The NHS with their current staffing complement, whether they've risen since 2010 or not, and gave a direct example of one sector that I assist in a voluntary support group capacity again, having done so in the past - AKA the real world.

I'm afraid I wasn't referring to London or a flu Armageddon with my reply, let alone did I pull a diagram off the internet that doesn't show or mention rising patient numbers and demand since 2010 or falling targets and appears to be from January of this year anyway, not today as the report I mentioned earlier was. I took the post and the phrase 'capital' to mean 'NHS capital funding' rather than 'London'. Hope that clarifies things for you.

 

[nicko31]

Food rotting in the fields

https://www.ft.com/content/13e183ee-c099-11e7-b8a3-38a6e068f464

We need some kind of migrant labour scheme fast, little interest from the locals to do this kind of work

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Food rotting in the fields

https://www.ft.com/content/13e183ee-c099-11e7-b8a3-38a6e068f464

We need some kind of migrant labour scheme fast, little interest from the locals to do this kind of work

They knew five years ago there would be a shortfall of workers. Lack of preparation, once again Brexit gets the blame for everything.