[Politics] Brexit

[Two Professors]

Try re-reading the first two sentences of my post...

So you are saying that NATO has no diplomatic role?Better close the headquarters in Brussels and get rid of all the civilians then.

 

[Trufflehound]

Lies told to Norway before they rejected EU membership.

1. Norway rejected joining the EU. The UK is in the EU and debating whether or not to leave. The potential economic consequences (most of which are conjecture on both sides) are therefore not comparable.

2. The Norwegian economy is propped up by the Sovereign Wealth Fund, worth I think around US$850 billion at the last count. They've managed to accumulate this by having a low population and massive oil and gas exports. Not really comparable to the UK situation.

 

[Jim in the West]

Quite, the fact we know we cannot control EU immigration numbers if we vote remain, the fact we know every EU treaty signed leads to more powers leaving these shores, the fact we know ever closer union will continue no matter what we do or say, the fact we know we are helping to pay for Turkey and other accession countries to meet the required EU entry standard, the fact we are paying Billions every year just to be a member, the fact we have tier 2 membership and can be outvoted by an inbuilt tier 1 Eurozone majority, the fact we are on the losing side more often than any Nation in the Council of ministers .. to name but a few. I can't bring myself to believe romantic sentiment that this will all suddenly change, or that a brighter future awaits as we reform and mould the EU in a direction more to our liking.

That's all very well, but I don't think you've answered the question - the Brexit camp unfortunately has no numbers, and very few facts. It is increasingly resorting to the immigration argument and seeking to scare us with images of millions of Turks flooding our beautiful country. And, whilst many people are (rightly) concerned by the lack of democracy in some areas, they recognise that our economic prosperity will greater within rather than without the EU. I think the Leave campaign needs to try a new tack - I'm not sure what that might be, but the strategy to date is plainly not working.

 

[Trufflehound]

Have you ever watched a Marx brothers film? (and I don't mean Karl)

I have all of them on DVD. They were made in the 1930s and 40s. How is this relevant to 2016?

 

[Jim in the West]

1. Norway rejected joining the EU. The UK is in the EU and debating whether or not to leave. The potential economic consequences (most of which are conjecture on both sides) are therefore not comparable.

2. The Norwegian economy is propped up by the Sovereign Wealth Fund, worth I think around US$850 billion at the last count. They've managed to accumulate this by having a low population and massive oil and gas exports. Not really comparable to the UK situation.

Good points - the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund is the biggest in the world. Norway would be one of the wealthiest countries (on a per capita basis) regardless of membership of the EU. We are not in that happy position. And, at the end of the day, Norway still wants virtually all the advantages of the EU - and it pays the EU to have access to the single market (and with that comes free movement of people).

The Leave campaign has already said it will NOT follow the Norway model anyway, so this is all slightly irrelevant!

 

[Gwylan]

She was born in Hamburg-even you could look that up.

(sigh). She was but her parents moved to East Germany when she was less than a year old. She then spent her entire life in East Germany until unification. Are you seriously suggesting a baby of a few months old had choice in the matter?

I really think you need to get better informed before you start commenting any further

 

[The Birdman]

By coming out of the EU it won't stop refugees trying to get to England in fact it May get worst as the other EU countries will let them come.just a thought.

 

[5ways]

thats not quite true, they have been debunked in as far as highlighting they ignore any positives outcomes or possible increases in trade out of the EU. they assume, in summary, that post Brexit the government would sit on its hands and do nothing proactive, change no regulation, make no trade agreements, and that crucially thousands of businesses would act in the same manner and not seek to adjust to the changing market. they only model the assumed reduction of trade with the EU. those august institutions assume the same as far as i can tell. by biasing the inputs and assumptions they reach a conclusion within the expected consensus.

I don't think all of these numerous numerous reports discount the government trying to do something proactive. They look at each model that has been proposed, WTO, Norway, Swiss and so on and weigh the pros and cons of each. Each of these models leaves us poorer than simply remaining.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

She was born in Hamburg-even you could look that up.

My word you're showing a shocking lack of knowledge about Merkel and the DDR.

And please don't come back and state you're correct as she was born in Hamburg. She's an Ossie....period.

 

[Trufflehound]

So you are saying that NATO has no diplomatic role?Better close the headquarters in Brussels and get rid of all the civilians then.

I am not saying NATO has no role. I am saying the roles are different. The EU is a political-economic organisation; NATO is a military alliance.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

That's all very well, but I don't think you've answered the question - the Brexit camp unfortunately has no numbers, and very few facts. It is increasingly resorting to the immigration argument and seeking to scare us with images of millions of Turks flooding our beautiful country. And, whilst many people are (rightly) concerned by the lack of democracy in some areas, they recognise that our economic prosperity will greater within rather than without the EU. I think the Leave campaign needs to try a new tack - I'm not sure what that might be, but the strategy to date is plainly not working.

Whereas Remain have lots of numbers but very few facts.

'That's all very well' dismisses rather a lot of inconvenient facts which suggests facts aren't that important after all.

I think lots of people dislike the EU but haven't got the courage of their convictions, don't like admitting they are influenced by the Remain/government scaremongering so are looking for excuses to vote remain. Even if Leave set out a 200 page dossier on what Brexit would look like it would be instantly rubbished as unachievable or unrealistic. When they do set out factual arguments about not being able to control EU immigration remainers obfuscate around the terminology of control or moan about the leave side mirroring Remains scare tactics.

Turkey joining the EU is far more likely to occur than all the economic Brexit forecasts are likely to be accurate but we all choose to believe what we want to justify our choices.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/eu-referendum-beware-consensus-among-the-great-and-the-good/

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Freedom of speech alive and kicking I see. It really was a DIY disaster for Remain.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/673205/eu-referendum-george-osborne-brexit

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...orne-s-latest-apocalyptic-warning-Brexit.html

 

[Tom Bombadil]

So now that the leave campaign has comprehensively lost the economic argument what's their main point of attack. Apologies for not keeping up with the thread but reading back through pages of partisan nonsense for the odd nugget just isn't worth risking my sanity. So if one of you leave chappies could summarise your best points that would be great thanks

 

[pastafarian]

So now that the leave campaign has comprehensively lost the economic argument what's their main point of attack. Apologies for not keeping up with the thread but reading back through pages of partisan nonsense for the odd nugget just isn't worth risking my sanity. So if one of you leave chappies could summarise your best points that would be great thanks

Bendy bananas
Hitler
Costs us £24 billion an hour to be a member

read the thread yourself you lazy git :kiss
that odd one little nugget of into might be be a gamechanger:

 

[Deleted member 22389]

So now that the leave campaign has comprehensively lost the economic argument what's their main point of attack. Apologies for not keeping up with the thread but reading back through pages of partisan nonsense for the odd nugget just isn't worth risking my sanity. So if one of you leave chappies could summarise your best points that would be great thanks

Leave doesn't need an argument, all you have to do is look online and see how the EU is and has treated member countries over the years, and how utterly out of control this whole organisation is with everyone's money. That gives you a good idea if what our future looks like. If that is not enough I don't know what is.

 

[drew]

Freedom of speech alive and kicking I see. It really was a DIY disaster for Remain.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/673205/eu-referendum-george-osborne-brexit

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...orne-s-latest-apocalyptic-warning-Brexit.html

No less a disaster than every time Boris opens his mouth!!

Truth of the matter is that the main protagonists in each camp keep making fools of themselves!!

 

[Trufflehound]

Bendy bananas
Hitler
Costs us £24 billion an hour to be a member

read the thread yourself you lazy git :kiss
that odd one little nugget of into might be be a gamechanger:

You forgot the 400 million Turks on their way to Sussex as we speak.

 

[Trufflehound]

Leave doesn't need an argument.

I think you'll find it does.

 

[Bladders]

1. Norway rejected joining the EU. The UK is in the EU and debating whether or not to leave. The potential economic consequences (most of which are conjecture on both sides) are therefore not comparable.

2. The Norwegian economy is propped up by the Sovereign Wealth Fund, worth I think around US$850 billion at the last count. They've managed to accumulate this by having a low population and massive oil and gas exports. Not really comparable to the UK situation.

I think the point is that they were fed the same crap we are now and none of it came true.

I think they call it ''SCAREMONGERING''.

 

[Bladders]

That's all very well, but I don't think you've answered the question - the Brexit camp unfortunately has no numbers, and very few facts. It is increasingly resorting to the immigration argument and seeking to scare us with images of millions of Turks flooding our beautiful country. And, whilst many people are (rightly) concerned by the lack of democracy in some areas, they recognise that our economic prosperity will greater within rather than without the EU. I think the Leave campaign needs to try a new tack - I'm not sure what that might be, but the strategy to date is plainly not working.

They could make some up I suppose like the remain camp. Would that help?