[Politics] Brexit

[Herr Tubthumper]

Both sides need to compromise if we are to progress. We did. The UK agreed to talk about the settlement first but will not finalise the deal or sign off on everything before talking about our future relationship. Mr Barnier said withdrawal terms are nothing to do with future arrangements ..

Article 50

A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.

How we are meant to finalise/agree on border arrangements in NI without knowing what the future trade relationship will be is also rather a bizarre position.

Stop ****ing bleating. This is your decision, your doing and your problem to resolve. Have the balls to do the things you said you'd do upon leaving.

Or just admit you've boxed yourself into a really woeful and stupid position.

 

[WATFORD zero]

What we should do really is walk away.

So now you would like no deal, even though you don't know what that means ?

You're consistent, I'll give you that sunshine, I'll give you that

 

[portslade seagull]

I wonder how many of those people assume that a no deal means things stay as they are, when in fact they will not

Hopefully most are aware of the issues this entails but they can also see past it rather than seemingly being stuck in a blanket fog like most remainers

 

[portslade seagull]

So as head of negotiations, what do you think we should do?

Not hoist the white flag when things get a little rough like most on here want. A deal is there if both yes both sides want it bad enough. Once the EU get over grabbing hands mode which is the real crux of the stalemate things could move along

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Stop ****ing bleating. This is your decision, your doing and your problem to resolve. Have the balls to do the things you said you'd do upon leaving.

Or just admit you've boxed yourself into a really woeful and stupid position.

A well reasoned mature response HT.

There are always numerous crisis points in negotiations, they come and go. I am still of the opinion a deal will be reached as consequences for both sides of a no deal option would be unnecessarily damaging. Probably only finalised at the last moment obviously. We also prepare for every eventuality.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not hoist the white flag when things get a little rough like most on here want. A deal is there if both yes both sides want it bad enough. Once the EU get over grabbing hands mode which is the real crux of the stalemate things could move along

Another 'no dealer ' with no idea what that means

 

[CheeseRolls]

A well reasoned mature response HT.

There are always numerous crisis points in negotiations, they come and go. I am still of the opinion a deal will be reached as consequences for both sides of a no deal option would be unnecessarily damaging. Probably only finalised at the last moment obviously. We also prepare for every eventuality.

I think you have missed the point. There are people on both sides of this argument who frankly have come across as thick through some ridiculous comments and then there are those who are just callous.

There are 3.2 million people in this country. People who came here for legitimate reasons, legally chose to build a life in this country. Now many have to live with an uncertain futures as our government treats them as political pawns.

Whining about money and playing the victim about intransigence, completely misses the point that these human beings deserve some assurances.

Unless you believe that foreigners are somehow worth less than English men. This is not a reasonable and open negotiating stance.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Even Mr Barnier is getting a tad annoyed with his negotiating remit

The EU's chief negotiator wants Germany to stop blocking Brexit talks

http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-e...germany-to-stop-blocking-brexit-talks-2017-10

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...th-call-to-begin-brexit-trade-talks-t7sbfjrf3

EU dancing to Germany's tune ... makes a change. No more concessions until trade talks commence, call their bluff and get that spineless weasel out of No11 #takebackcontrol

But I thought the Germans would roll over because we are their biggest car market

 

[cheshunt seagull]

I think you have missed the point. There are people on both sides of this argument who frankly have come across as thick through some ridiculous comments and then there are those who are just callous.

There are 3.2 million people in this country. People who came here for legitimate reasons, legally chose to build a life in this country. Now many have to live with an uncertain futures as our government treats them as political pawns.

Whining about money and playing the victim about intransigence, completely misses the point that these human beings deserve some assurances.

Unless you believe that foreigners are somehow worth less than English men. This is not a reasonable and open negotiating stance.

It's sad that Brexit has led to otherwise decent people justify cruel and cynical policies and strategies that they would have rightly condemned less than 2 years ago.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I think you have missed the point. There are people on both sides of this argument who frankly have come across as thick through some ridiculous comments and then there are those who are just callous.

There are 3.2 million people in this country. People who came here for legitimate reasons, legally chose to build a life in this country. Now many have to live with an uncertain futures as our government treats them as political pawns.

Whining about money and playing the victim about intransigence, completely misses the point that these human beings deserve some assurances.

Unless you believe that foreigners are somehow worth less than English men. This is not a reasonable and open negotiating stance.

I didn't notice a point just a particularly thick, ridiculous comment.

At least 1.2 Million Brits live in other EU countries it is the UK governments primary responsibility to safeguard their future. Why aren't you concerned that the EU is treating them as political pawns?

Stating facts isn't whining. Blaming everything on the UK side is though.

Both should be treated equally which means having their rights and futures secured at the same time asap.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

But I thought the Germans would roll over because we are their biggest car market

Considering you think the BAE job losses are down to Brexit that doesn't surprise me.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Considering you think the BAE job losses are down to Brexit that doesn't surprise me.

#promotespreadsheetphil

 

[Baldseagull]

Jean-Claude Juncker (100 billion Euros).

No, he said it could be as much as 100 billion, not that it was. It was an estimate, as was 50 and 60 billion that were also mentioned. The negotiations are supposed to agree the method of calculating the sum. They are not arguing over a figure, they are arguing about what calculations should be done, to reach the figure.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I didn't notice a point just a particularly thick, ridiculous comment.

At least 1.2 Million Brits live in other EU countries it is the UK governments primary responsibility to safeguard their future. Why aren't you concerned that the EU is treating them as political pawns?

Stating facts isn't whining. Blaming everything on the UK side is though.

Both should be treated equally which means having their rights and futures secured at the same time asap.

Pedantry UK citizens are not guaranteed the right to move to another EU country post Brexit. A position of our own making.

 

[beorhthelm]

There are 3.2 million people in this country. People who came here for legitimate reasons, legally chose to build a life in this country. Now many have to live with an uncertain futures as our government treats them as political pawns.

the UK have offered all EU citizens the right to remain and effectively same rights as UK citizens rights in law, if they have been here 5 years. thats not uncertain, and i dont know who is treating them as a politcal pawn. the EU is apparently want to allow family to join them later, no reason why this is so important.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Pedantry UK citizens are not guaranteed the right to move to another EU country post Brexit. A position of our own making.

So you don't think both sets of citizens should be treated equally having their rights and futures secured at the same time asap. Making unilateral concessions to an obviously formidable negotiating opponent may give some people a warm fuzzy feeling but responsible Governments have to act in the national interest.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Stop ****ing bleating. This is your decision, your doing and your problem to resolve. Have the balls to do the things you said you'd do upon leaving.

Or just admit you've boxed yourself into a really woeful and stupid position.

The bleating is coming from the EU regards the 'divorce bill'. "That nasty UK won't say what they think they owe us" - normally those 'owed' money produce the bill, a detailed one. And I'm not talking about the 100Bn Euro figure the drunkard, corrupt Juncker plucked out of the air. I mean something accountants could balance but of course having never passed an audit for years the EU wouldn't know what that is. Time to walk away with no deal IMHO if the EU can't produce the bill by the end of the year.

 

[CheeseRolls]

the UK have offered all EU citizens the right to remain and effectively same rights as UK citizens rights in law, if they have been here 5 years. thats not uncertain, and i dont know who is treating them as a politcal pawn. the EU is apparently want to allow family to join them later, no reason why this is so important.

Offered ? Should have been agreed up front.

 

[beorhthelm]

Offered ? Should have been agreed up front.

thats down to EU, they seem to insist on nothing agreed out of their procedure.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The bleating is coming from the EU regards the 'divorce bill'. "That nasty UK won't say what they think they owe us" - normally those 'owed' money produce the bill, a detailed one. And I'm not talking about the 100Bn Euro figure the drunkard, corrupt Juncker plucked out of the air. I mean something accountants could balance but of course having never passed an audit for years the EU wouldn't know what that is. Time to walk away with no deal IMHO if the EU can't produce the bill by the end of the year.

So I'll add you to the majority of our brexiteers on here who have just realised that our negotiating position is completely shit and now thinks that 'no deal' is the way ahead ?

I do wish you had given this a bit more thought 2 years ago