[Politics] Brexit

[DavidinSouthampton]

But Parliament democratically voted that there shouldn't be a vote on the deal.

It was the correct call. Remainers say they want stability but if there was a vote on the deal it could lead to many more years of instability. Imagine if parliament rejected the deal - we'd be in a very grey area of getting out but parliament not allowing us to do so. And don't say we would automatically stay in the EU if the deal was rejected ..... that's just a way of making the first referendum null and void.

All this assumes that we ever get to the stage of having a deal to vote on, or not to vote on.

Could we get to the Kafkaesque position of deciding whether or not to vote on not having a deal?

 

[The Clamp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41369239

Britain slides further as credit rating lowered. And still the Leavers insist it'll be fine. Well, the four that still post on here do, all the others gave up trying to defend this shambles months ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41369239

 

[larus]

Yes - but the two years only starts when you trigger Article 50. Nothing to stop the UK government from waiting a few years before giving notice.

I assume you’ve forgotten the loud wailing from the EU demanding that we trigger Article 50? Or more likely it’s convenient to ignore that fact.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I assume you’ve forgotten the loud wailing from the EU demanding that we trigger Article 50? Or more likely it’s convenient to ignore that fact.

Almost as loud as the moaning and bitching from the Leavers crying it was not triggered the day after, which is why it was triggered so early.

 

[larus]

Almost as loud as the moaning and bitching from the Leavers crying it was not triggered the day after, which is why it was triggered so early.

Duh, his point was that we shouldn’t have triggered it so early. I merely pointed out that his beloved EU was pushing us to trigger article 50. It’s really not a complicated point.

 

[pastafarian]

I assume you’ve forgotten the loud wailing from the EU demanding that we trigger Article 50? Or more likely it’s convenient to ignore that fact.

Indeed.
The EU were very clear from their statements, there would be no discussion at all on the rights of EU and British citizens post Brexit until Article 50 was commenced.
Some people seem to have conveniently forgotten the shouts and pressure from many quarters to get it all kick started ASAP as these rights were of the utmost urgency.

 

[larus]

Indeed.
The EU were very clear from their statements, there would be no discussion at all on the rights of EU and British citizens post Brexit until Article 50 was commenced.
Some people seem to have conveniently forgotten the shouts and pressure from many quarters to get it all kick started ASAP as these rights were of the utmost urgency.

Oh perlease. Surely you must realise that this is all the fault of the nasty Brexiteers. And they must sort out this ‘mess’.

Yet the remainers don’t realise that Brexiteers are not in power.
Brexiteers are not a political party.
Brexiteers aren’t controlling the process.
Brexiteers weren’t in power when the referendum was called.

No, you could say that any issues we have are caused by remainers.

At least we now what Labours position is on Brexit - well, at least until it changes again

 

[ManOfSussex]

Indeed.
The EU were very clear from their statements, there would be no discussion at all on the rights of EU and British citizens post Brexit until Article 50 was commenced.
Some people seem to have conveniently forgotten the shouts and pressure from many quarters to get it all kick started ASAP as these rights were of the utmost urgency.

And 6 months later that pesky Johnny Foreigner Macron is still saying we need more clarity on financial settlements, Ireland AND citizens rights before we can move on despite Mrs May's quite magnificent speech yesterday, that went down very well in Conservative and Unionist party circles but nowhere much else, clarifying everything. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41369600

 

[pastafarian]

My point is - if you WERE intent on leaving, then at least (a) work out your negotiating position first, and (b) put everything in place to enable that strategy to be implemented. For example, if you decided that Leave meant also leaving the Customs Union, ensure you'd got a solution for Northern Ireland, put all the IT systems in place, etc. It is SO basic, I am inclined to think that the majority of MPs who voted to trigger Article 50 before putting a plan in place are just plain stupid.

And your alternative flipflop second stance years down the line would be.......i cant believe this government spent billions and billions on putting systems in place that are not needed considering the outcome of negotiations,why didnt they realise their original negotiating position was not guaranteed, they should have known there was two parties involved and the outcome may have been different...........or something similar.

 

[The Clamp]

We should have figured out our position way before we triggered a50. We should have made our fallback position clear from the start. Surely we knew our fallback at that point? Didn't we? I mean, surely they aren't making it up as they go along?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And 6 months later that pesky Johnny Foreigner Macron is still saying we need more clarity on financial settlements, Ireland AND citizens rights before we can move on despite Mrs May's quite magnificent speech yesterday, that went down very well in Conservative and Unionist party circles but nowhere much else, clarifying everything. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41369600

And still the EU hasn't produced a detailed breakdown of what they think we owe - a balance sheet of assets verses obligations. Strange that ..... when someone says I owe them money I at least expect a detailed invoice of credits and debits.

 

[ManOfSussex]

We should have figured out our position way before we triggered a50. We should have made our fallback position clear from the start. Surely we knew our fallback at that point? Didn't we? I mean, surely they aren't making it up as they go along?

We weren't allowed to be prepared before triggering Article 50 because the Brexiteers were worried about the democratic will of the majority being ignored and the referendum result not being respected. Plus no deal is better than a bad deal, Brexit means Brexit, they need us more than we need them and there has to be a deal because Neil and Christine Hamilton said there would, so we're really worrying over nothing.

 

[ManOfSussex]

And still the EU hasn't produced a detailed breakdown of what they think we owe - a balance sheet of assets verses obligations. Strange that ..... when someone says I owe them money I at least expect a detailed invoice of credits and debits.

As I said the other day - The Conservative and Unionist Party v The European Union - you've got more chance of 2 scorpions in a jam jar coming to an agreement.

 

[The Clamp]

And still the EU hasn't produced a detailed breakdown of what they think we owe - a balance sheet of assets verses obligations. Strange that ..... when someone says I owe them money I at least expect a detailed invoice of credits and debits.

I should think this has been issued to our government. May will be bricking it too much to release the details though.

 

[pastafarian]

We weren't allowed to be prepared before triggering Article 50 because the Brexiteers were worried about the democratic will of the majority being ignored and the referendum result not being respected. Plus no deal is better than a bad deal, Brexit means Brexit, they need us more than we need them and there has to be a deal because Neil and Christine Hamilton said there would, so we're really worrying over nothing.

have you had a liquid breakfast at Wetherspoons?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I should think this has been issued to our government. May will be bricking it too much to release the details though.

The EU would have released it if it was a realistic demand .... it isn't - it's a back of a fag packet figure ( 100Bn Euros FFS !!! ). Come back when you have the proper figure.

 

[The Clamp]

The EU would have released it if it was a realistic demand .... it isn't - it's a back of a fag packet figure ( 100Bn Euros FFS !!! ). Come back when you have the proper figure.

You seem to know a lot. What should it be?

 

[pastafarian]

I should think this has been issued to our government. May will be bricking it too much to release the details though.

I see, so the EU has issued a detailed Bill, a balance sheet of assets verses obligations after input from hundreds of bureaucrats and numerous departments and decided not to make it known to anyone they had composed it or given it to us. The Gov has decided to keep this all to themselves as well and no one has leaked its existence from here or Europe.
But you know this bill exists.
Must be fun in your head sometimes.

 

[The Clamp]

We weren't allowed to be prepared before triggering Article 50 because the Brexiteers were worried about the democratic will of the majority being ignored and the referendum result not being respected. Plus no deal is better than a bad deal, Brexit means Brexit, they need us more than we need them and there has to be a deal because Neil and Christine Hamilton said there would, so we're really worrying over nothing.

Quite. Anything goes wrong with Brexit it's all the remainers fault, despite trying to stop the whole bloody thing in the first place.

 

[The Clamp]

I see, so the EU has issued a detailed Bill, a balance sheet of assets verses obligations after input from hundreds of bureaucrats and numerous departments and decided not to make it known to anyone they had composed it or given it to us. The Gov has decided to keep this all to themselves as well and no one has leaked its existence from here or Europe.
But you know this bill exists.
Must be fun in your head sometimes.

Yes. Similar to our negotiating hand that we have but keep refusing to reveal. If you believe the Tory line that the EU have simply demanded 100bn with no breakdown at all, you're even more deluded than we thought.