[Politics] Brexit

[beorhthelm]

But this was always going to be the case. It is like private companies who make it hard to leave and paying off mortgages early. It is absolutely NOT in the eu interest for us to leave and succeed because then others might have same idea.

always found this a argument an admission of unpopularity of the EU within the member states. its quite possible to have a free trade area and even some customs union (more complications) without the march towards centralisation of legislation, judiciary and financial control. a local or even national business, say a plumber, insurer or high street retailer, should not need to adhere to central legislation on the pretense of single market harmonisation, when they do not come into competition with counterparts in other nations. but the single market isnt the end itself, it is all a means to the goal of a united european state, as Juncker reminded us last night.

 

[Two Professors]

It all comes down to jobs and employment.Compare our unemployment rates with the absolute car-crash that is the EU,particularly youth unemployment.Even graduates find it hard to get a job with 20% unemployment.Junker and his chums will not keep them happy with slogans for much longer,no matter what the sneering types say!

 

[Berty23]

Will it? That project fear crystal ball hasn't served you well up to this point. What's your latest deadline of doom? .. the day we leave, six months on.. 1 year on.

For the purpose of this thread are we pretending the following.
1. Sterling hasn't crashed
2. The expected rise of manufacturing has happened
3. Inflation isn't making us all a bit poorer everyday
4. The uk is the fastest growing developed economy rather than the slowest.

If you could confirm that we are pretending all of those things then I will answer your question.

 

[Berty23]

always found this a argument an admission of unpopularity of the EU within the member states. its quite possible to have a free trade area and even some customs union (more complications) without the march towards centralisation of legislation, judiciary and financial control. a local or even national business, say a plumber, insurer or high street retailer, should not need to adhere to central legislation on the pretense of single market harmonisation, when they do not come into competition with counterparts in other nations. but the single market isnt the end itself, it is all a means to the goal of a united european state, as Juncker reminded us last night.

Yes possible but influence from within. Get people together and do it that way.

 

[Two Professors]

For the purpose of this thread are we pretending the following.
1. Sterling hasn't crashed
2. The expected rise of manufacturing has happened
3. Inflation isn't making us all a bit poorer everyday
4. The uk is the fastest growing developed economy rather than the slowest.

If you could confirm that we are pretending all of those things then I will answer your question.

I actually find myself agreeing with something you have posted for the first time ever
Once we have left the EU,things will improve!

 

[Jim D]

Yes possible but influence from within. Get people together and do it that way.

Influence? The only influence within the EU is from Germany. They get whatever they want.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The talks are being delayed by barnier and co by demanding a divorce payment of which they're not entitled too. Why can't you see that?

Don't be silly. The UK buys loads and loads of German cars and drinks gallons of Prosecco. Plenty of Brexiteers have told us this. You have them over a barrel so how can it be the EU are making such demands? Tell them where to go.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

For the purpose of this thread are we pretending the following.
1. Sterling hasn't crashed
2. The expected rise of manufacturing has happened
3. Inflation isn't making us all a bit poorer everyday
4. The uk is the fastest growing developed economy rather than the slowest.

If you could confirm that we are pretending all of those things then I will answer your question.

For the purpose of this thread are we pretending project fear didn't state an immediate economic shock would cause a huge drop in GDP (up to 6%), recession, big jump in unemployment, house price crash .. parroted by many on here?

Are we also pretending that the 'experts' didn't say the pound was overvalued by as much as 20% before the referendum?

Are we pretending a manfacturing boost hasn't happened? https://www.theguardian.com/busines...es-fastest-growth-in-three-years-figures-show ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-economy-brexit-eu-leave-survey-a7870311.html

Are we pretending the UK isn't currently growing at a faster rate than predicted by the IMF, Treasury, OECD?

Don't blame you for not wanting to answer though, if you wait long enough a rise in unemployment, recession etc will happen .. it always does.

 

[5ways]

His proposals included a new centralised EU president, a eurozone finance minister, a Brussels intelligence agency, European anti-terrorism prosecutor and an agency to enforce labour standards.

“Europe only moves forward when it is bold,” he said. “The single market, Schengen and the single currency were all written off as pipe dreams before they happened. And yet these three ambitious projects are now a reality.

“I hear those who say we should not rock the boat now that things have started to get better. But now is not the time to err on the side of caution. We must complete the job now that the sun is shining and whilst it still is. Because when the next clouds appear on the horizon — and they will — it will be too late.”

He proposed combining the commission and European council presidencies, currently held by Donald Tusk, in a proposal that would centralise authority and transform the EU’s Brussels institutions at the top.

Significantly, countries remaining outside the euro will face political pressure to join, with a new “euro-accession instrument” to supervise progress.

“If we want the euro to unite rather than divide our continent then it should be more than the currency of a select group of countries. The euro is meant to be the single currency of the EU as a whole,” he said. “We need a European minister of economy and finance.”

He called for a new “European intelligence unit that ensures data concerning terrorists and foreign fighters are automatically shared among intelligence services and with the police”. He added that there was “a strong case for tasking a new European public prosecutor with prosecuting cross-border terrorist crimes”.

Taking advantage of Britain’s withdrawal, Mr Juncker proposed for the EU to use “bridging clauses” in the Lisbon Treaty to increase voting, including in the sensitive areas of tax and foreign policy.

“I am strongly in favour of moving to qualified majority voting for decisions on the common consolidated corporate tax base, on VAT, on fair taxes for the digital industry and on the financial transaction tax,” he said.

“The EU should also have more influence on the world stage. It needs to be able to make its foreign policy decisions more quickly. The time has come to take foreign policy decisions in certain cases by qualified majority.”

In a move that will irritate eastern and central European countries, Mr Juncker called for the creation of “a new European inspection and enforcement body” to police complaints from France, the Netherlands and other countries in western Europe that free movement is undercutting wages and social standards.

He said that he supported equality between new eastern countries and older western European members and warned Hungary and Poland that they would be required — and forced if necessary — to honour migrant quotas.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...is-ambitions-for-post-brexit-europe-fccrxzx2j

Not sure who does more damage to the Remain pov Blair or Juncker. New referendum anyone?

At least Remainers would have a better idea what they were voting for.

That you can't see how this isolates and weakens us is depressing.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

That you can't see how this isolates and weakens us is depressing.

That you can't see ever closer union is a one-way destination whether we are in or out more so.

 

[beorhthelm]

That you can't see how this isolates and weakens us is depressing.

they are going to take advantage of us leaving to harmonise taxes and foreign policy... sure, if you think it weakens us to be our own masters of such matters, you carry on with your malaise. as i say before, this is great for the EU, they should be helping us out so they can get on with all the integration they so desperately want.

 

[5ways]

they are going to take advantage of us leaving to harmonise taxes and foreign policy... sure, if you think it weakens us to be our own masters of such matters, you carry on with your malaise. as i say before, this is great for the EU, they should be helping us out so they can get on with all the integration they so desperately want.

We're going to be the great unifier - "Don't end up like the Brits!" will be a rallying cry for decades.

 

[ManOfSussex]

they are going to take advantage of us leaving to harmonise taxes and foreign policy... sure, if you think it weakens us to be our own masters of such matters, you carry on with your malaise. as i say before, this is great for the EU, they should be helping us out so they can get on with all the integration they so desperately want.

If they're planning to integrate further and become an evil paranoid superstate locking in all constituent members forever, why would they just roll over and help us out as we leave, threatening the integrity of their evil federalist project?

 

[5ways]

they are going to take advantage of us leaving to harmonise taxes and foreign policy... sure, if you think it weakens us to be our own masters of such matters, you carry on with your malaise. as i say before, this is great for the EU, they should be helping us out so they can get on with all the integration they so desperately want.

As ever I fail to see how being our 'own masters' includes swallowing wholesale EU regulation and law without the ability to amend it.

 

[nicko31]

Business/economy update from everyone's favourite bringer of truth ...



#fakenews

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41252976

Happy days, second jobs, whilst his MEP salary soars as sterling crashes. Not quite so good for a little people though, is it Nige?

 

[The Clamp]

Silly boy,reading up on what has been written on this thread since the last time I read it is not trawling back, its called catching up.
You do continue to have bizarre issues about what time people post on NSC, I will post at what time I want and you will simply have to come to terms with your flaws, learning to tolerate criticism would be a good start and would help you be less dysfunctional.
I doubt it will be the last time you reference about what time a post is made though.

No, no. I just find your MO a bit desperate. Rather than have a look at the thread and see if you can add anything interesting or relevant you trawl through the last 24 hours and write insulting angry responses to every Remainer on here. I just think there's better ways to wake up of a morning. Must be exhausting.
I look forward to your early morning review tomorrow!

 

[nicko31]

For the purpose of this thread are we pretending project fear didn't state an immediate economic shock would cause a huge drop in GDP (up to 6%), recession, big jump in unemployment, house price crash .. parroted by many on here?

Are we also pretending that the 'experts' didn't say the pound was overvalued by as much as 20% before the referendum?

Are we pretending a manfacturing boost hasn't happened? https://www.theguardian.com/busines...es-fastest-growth-in-three-years-figures-show ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-economy-brexit-eu-leave-survey-a7870311.html

Are we pretending the UK isn't currently growing at a faster rate than predicted by the IMF, Treasury, OECD?

Don't blame you for not wanting to answer though, if you wait long enough a rise in unemployment, recession etc will happen .. it always does.

Take your rose coloured Brexit spec's off

Slowest performing economy in the EU and the G7 so far this year. Thankfully those pesky foreigners are visiting our shores and buying our goods in Europe, so its not quite disaster yet

 

[BigGully]

Don't be silly. The UK buys loads and loads of German cars and drinks gallons of Prosecco. Plenty of Brexiteers have told us this. You have them over a barrel so how can it be the EU are making such demands? Tell them where to go.

This has been your line for a few weeks, with the EU running a surplus of some £60bn with the UK and Germany with £30bn alone I am trying to work out why you sneeringly expect that to be irrelevant.

 

[portslade seagull]

Take your rose coloured Brexit spec's off

Slowest performing economy in the EU and the G7 so far this year. Thankfully those pesky foreigners are visiting our shores and buying our goods in Europe, so its not quite disaster yet

Pounds looking good though if your of to America. Euro has rise again as well

 

[Berty23]

For the purpose of this thread are we pretending project fear didn't state an immediate economic shock would cause a huge drop in GDP (up to 6%), recession, big jump in unemployment, house price crash .. parroted by many on here?

Are we also pretending that the 'experts' didn't say the pound was overvalued by as much as 20% before the referendum?

Are we pretending a manfacturing boost hasn't happened? https://www.theguardian.com/busines...es-fastest-growth-in-three-years-figures-show ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-economy-brexit-eu-leave-survey-a7870311.html

Are we pretending the UK isn't currently growing at a faster rate than predicted by the IMF, Treasury, OECD?

Don't blame you for not wanting to answer though, if you wait long enough a rise in unemployment, recession etc will happen .. it always does.

Lol. Just because politicians lied doesn't mean I did. People argued pound was over valued when it was at lower rates than usual vs dollar and euro. Go on holiday to Ibiza and come back and say the pound has not tanked.

Have you read nothing from legal experts who have explained what WTO terms actually means? You should.