[Politics] Brexit

[Two Professors]

And it's goodbye democracy , hello totalitarianism.

But we will be leaving totalitarianism to Junker et al in March 2019.Hoorah!

 

[pastafarian]

I personally would say that if Jezza were to throw Brexit in the bin and promise continued membership of the EU, albeit on hopefully better terms than before, then I would take it. I would vote forJezza in the next General Election as I believe it would be the best thing for the UK if he promised those things. And yes, I do still get a vote for quite a number of years.

Not sure Labour could afford to potentially lose over 4 million voters if Corbyn decided to ignore.the referendum vote,he is many things but undemocratic is not one of them.
You know Verhofstadt has already promised if we chuck in the towel and stay there will be no more rebate or complexity it will be a new Europe with real powers and unity. You can kiss goodbye to being outside Schengen, no more opt outs and hello the Euro,these are even worse terms that we have now..........you did know this right?

 

[pastafarian]

I don't think he's that bothered by immigration anyway - it was just that when someone asked them what they saw as the tacit question "do you fancy more immigrants or fewer?" they stuck their X against fewer.

76% of the country want less immigration and only 4% want more, your friend is simply fitting in with the vast majority of public thinking.

 

[Hampster Gull]

It may be that there is some upwards movement in wages of lower paid jobs, if there is a reduction in immigration, but I doubt very much we will see a reduction in prices. Either we will be importing at increased cost, or we will be consuming more domestically produced products, which, if wages have gone up, will logically be more expensive to produce than they are currently.
This also is not taking proper account of what the future tax burden is likely to be, which despite any reduction in payments to the EU, is likely to rise substantially.

Yep. And of course inflation has already risen on the back of the vote which drove our currency down 10% to 20%. It's now close to 3% and wages aren't rising as much. We are already poorer and it's those with the least wealth who suffer most from rising inflation and falling real wages.

 

[GT49er]

OK everybody, I am known on here for being a Tory boy, right wing, anti Jezza, not a fan of the Labour party, etc etc. That reputation is well deserved cos I am all of those things, I am also against unfettered immigration (trust me, mine ain't unfettered), benefits for all, basically I really do think that Jezza is a tool.

But..........

I personally would say that if Jezza were to throw Brexit in the bin and promise continued membership of the EU, albeit on hopefully better terms than before, then I would take it. I would vote forJezza in the next General Election as I believe it would be the best thing for the UK if he promised those things. And yes, I do still get a vote for quite a number of years.

I find it difficult to believe that anybody is stupid enough to believe that the EU would let us re-join, or renege on Brexit on the same terms as we're on now, let alone better ones. Think, for just one tiny moment -
Shengen - can we stay opted out?...........No, f*** off;
Can we still opt out of the Euro?.....No, f*** off;
Can we opt out of the European Defence Force?.....No, f*** off;
Can we opt out of progress towards a United States of Europe?......No, f*** off;
What about our veto?......No, f*** off.
Vote Labour by all means if you want to, but you'll be voting on the same sort of level as the people who vote Tory "because my husband does".

 

[ManOfSussex]

Impressed with DD on Marr this morning. £50 Billion story 'nonsense ...completely wrong' Uk position - 'People before process', Healthcare and social security provision agreed for UK citizens in Europe.

Meanwhile, Labour have a 'united and clear position'

Keir Starmer: Stay in single market and “a” customs union during transition period, then leave single market. Transition has to be as short as possible, “could” last just two years. Or it “could” go beyond 2022 election.

Tom Watson: Could stay in single market and customs union permanently after the transition period is over.

Caroline Flint: “Totally disagree” with Watson, cannot stay in single market and customs union permanently.

Incidentally, whilst you're fantasising and obsessing about the Labour Party again, I did see this week that Arthur Scargill had written to the one of the papers and had a letter published, I forget which, saying as an ardent Brexiteer like yourself, that the complexities of the Northern Irish border and Brexit can be easily solved by handing back Northern Ireland to Dublin and shafting the Unionist community there/a price worth paying. I reckon Farage would be game, what about yourself as a patriot? Fair price, or NEVER!

 

[pastafarian]

Incidentally, whilst you're fantasising and obsessing about the Labour Party again, I did see this week that Arthur Scargill had written to the one of the papers and had a letter published, I forget which, saying as an ardent Brexiteer like yourself, that the complexities of the Northern Irish border and Brexit can be easily solved by handing back Northern Ireland to Dublin and shafting the Unionist community there/a price worth paying. I reckon Farage would be game, what about yourself as a patriot? Fair price, or NEVER!

It was the Guardian letters page

The Socialist Labour party warned that the Labour party would betray not only its members but the democratic vote by the British people to leave the European Union. As soon as that vote was announced on 23 June 2016, Britain should have left the EU, including the customs union, the single market and, above all, the “free movement of labour and capital” which has seen the population of Britain rise from 59 million to 67 million. The UK should not pay a penny or cent to the EU. If the border in Ireland is a concern, the solution is simple: return Northern Ireland back to the Republic of Ireland from where it was taken.
Arthur Scargill
Leader, Socialist Labour party

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...brexit-policy-could-create-electoral-problems

I cant see the bit where he says lets shaft the Unionist community they are a price worth paying but i would have thought in matters such as these in Ireland (same as Gibraltar and the Falklands) the issue should be self determined by the people of Ireland themselves.
Nice to see though he recognises that we should be out of the customs union, out of the single market and end free movement. Takes a real socialist i suppose to remind the fakers in Labour what`s what.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I find it difficult to believe that anybody is stupid enough to believe that the EU would let us re-join, or renege on Brexit on the same terms as we're on now, let alone better ones. Think, for just one tiny moment -
Shengen - can we stay opted out?...........No, f*** off;
Can we still opt out of the Euro?.....No, f*** off;
Can we opt out of the European Defence Force?.....No, f*** off;
Can we opt out of progress towards a United States of Europe?......No, f*** off;
What about our veto?......No, f*** off.
Vote Labour by all means if you want to, but you'll be voting on the same sort of level as the people who vote Tory "because my husband does".

Great opt outs won tirelessly over the years and thrown away in a one off protest vote

 

[ManOfSussex]

It was the Guardian letters page

The Socialist Labour party warned that the Labour party would betray not only its members but the democratic vote by the British people to leave the European Union. As soon as that vote was announced on 23 June 2016, Britain should have left the EU, including the customs union, the single market and, above all, the “free movement of labour and capital” which has seen the population of Britain rise from 59 million to 67 million. The UK should not pay a penny or cent to the EU. If the border in Ireland is a concern, the solution is simple: return Northern Ireland back to the Republic of Ireland from where it was taken.
Arthur Scargill
Leader, Socialist Labour party

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...brexit-policy-could-create-electoral-problems

I cant see the bit where he says lets shaft the Unionist community they are a price worth paying but i would have thought in matters such as these in Ireland (same as Gibraltar and the Falklands) the issue should be self determined by the people of Ireland themselves.
Nice to see though he recognises that we should be out of the customs union, out of the single market and end free movement. Takes a real socialist i suppose to remind the fakers in Labour what`s what.

I don't read The Guardian, but I'm not surprised there's a Guardian reader like yourself around to point it all out. Thanks.

 

[GT49er]

Great opt outs won tirelessly over the years and thrown away in a one off protest vote

...........and would never have been needed were it not for the politicians successfully gulling the voters to vote 'yes' in 1975.

 

[pastafarian]

I don't read The Guardian, but I'm not surprised there's a Guardian reader like yourself around to point it all out. Thanks.

I like to read all the newspapers on all sides of debates,no snowflake switch on me.
Some of you remainers should try stepping out of your echo chamber........you would learn much more.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I like to read all the newspapers on all sides of debates,no snowflake switch on me.
Some of you remainers should try stepping out of your echo chamber........you would learn much more.

Most of my friends are leavers - I think my echo chamber and bubble is broader than yours.

 

[pastafarian]

Most of my friends are leavers - I think my echo chamber and bubble is broader than yours.

Clearly not when you avoid reading some newspapers.Your choice though. Personally i prefer more information not less.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Clearly not when you avoid reading some newspapers.Your choice though. Personally i prefer more information not less.

What papers do I avoid reading?

 

[Baldseagull]

Impressed with DD on Marr this morning. £50 Billion story 'nonsense ...completely wrong' Uk position - 'People before process', Healthcare and social security provision agreed for UK citizens in Europe.

Meanwhile, Labour have a 'united and clear position'

Keir Starmer: Stay in single market and “a” customs union during transition period, then leave single market. Transition has to be as short as possible, “could” last just two years. Or it “could” go beyond 2022 election.

Tom Watson: Could stay in single market and customs union permanently after the transition period is over.

Caroline Flint: “Totally disagree” with Watson, cannot stay in single market and customs union permanently.

It was the Guardian letters page

The Socialist Labour party warned that the Labour party would betray not only its members but the democratic vote by the British people to leave the European Union. As soon as that vote was announced on 23 June 2016, Britain should have left the EU, including the customs union, the single market and, above all, the “free movement of labour and capital” which has seen the population of Britain rise from 59 million to 67 million. The UK should not pay a penny or cent to the EU. If the border in Ireland is a concern, the solution is simple: return Northern Ireland back to the Republic of Ireland from where it was taken.
Arthur Scargill
Leader, Socialist Labour party

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...brexit-policy-could-create-electoral-problems

I cant see the bit where he says lets shaft the Unionist community they are a price worth paying but i would have thought in matters such as these in Ireland (same as Gibraltar and the Falklands) the issue should be self determined by the people of Ireland themselves.
Nice to see though he recognises that we should be out of the customs union, out of the single market and end free movement. Takes a real socialist i suppose to remind the fakers in Labour what`s what.

Do you agree then, that the resolution to the N.Ireland/Ireland border is simply resolved by uniting Ireland under Irish rule?

 

[GT49er]

Do you agree then, that the resolution to the N.Ireland/Ireland border is simply resolved by uniting Ireland under Irish rule?

Purely from the Labour point of view, what have the Unionists ever done to expect any favours from Labour?

(Not suggesting NI should be handed over to the ROI, just asking a question).

 

[pastafarian]

Do you agree then, that the resolution to the N.Ireland/Ireland border is simply resolved by uniting Ireland under Irish rule?

If the people of Ireland ever want to unite as one country who am i to argue. I wouldnt agree with Mr Scargill though on simply handing over N Ireland to Eire without consent, that path seems rather irresponsible and wouldnt resolve anything.

 

[Baldseagull]

Purely from the Labour point of view, what have the Unionists ever done to expect any favours from Labour?

(Not suggesting NI should be handed over to the ROI, just asking a question).

Not a thing. What have the population done to expect a total disregard for their UK status?

 

[portslade seagull]

Most of my friends are leavers - I think my echo chamber and bubble is broader than yours.

4 of my friends were remainers but now want out as they are fed up with the moaning from both sides

 

[ManOfSussex]

4 of my friends were remainers but now want out as they are fed up with the moaning from both sides

Cool.