[Politics] Brexit

[Bakero]

We do NOT have any meaningful representation. FACT

I'd agree with you to some extent but capital letters don't make things true.

 

[The Rivet]

Me too. The sheep that huddle together, believing every scare story, will probably vote in sufficient numbers to send us down the river, to being an off-shore backwater of a greater Franco-German super-state. Mainly German........
I'm hoping the polls will be wrong, and that June 23rd. will be Independence Day, but I fear the worst. And even if the vote is to leave, there will be another referendum within six months, and another, and another, until we vote the 'right' way.

Sheep, yep! Baa lambs worrying about whether they may lose a few hundred quid. I don't need graphs or charts! Will we lose more than in 2008? Conversely what may we gain?

 

[The Rivet]

I'd agree with you to some extent but capital letters don't make things true.

Cute cop out that means nothing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Is it? Who works solely on their own then, doing business with no one. ?

The U.K. .....after its left the EU?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think the funniest thing is that kids are supposed to be encouraging parents to support the EU. What do they know? I fully admit I was out for myself until about 35 (self interest) when I then considered the wider benefit. It's a shame that under 35's think this country should be a state of Europe because, apparently, we, the country that introduced so much to the world, is incapable of anything other than being a cash cow Biatch.

What do kids know? They probably know it's their parents generation which ****ed the economy in 2007. That's what.

 

[GT49er]

What do kids know? They probably know it's their parents generation which ****ed the economy in 2007. That's what.

And some of us know it was our parents' generation that ****ed the Nazis in 1945. That's also what.

 

[Stato]

The thing that has confused me about all of this is that Cameron tells us every day that he honestly believes that leaving the EU will be a disaster for our economy, for house prices, for our defence, for international relations and for virtually everything else you can mention, but he was willing to put the country at risk of this disaster, with the only apparent motives to try to sort out a long term internal argument in the Conservative party, or nick votes off UKIP.

If he and Osborne truly believe that leaving will be so cataclysmic, wouldn't their willingness to put the country in way of this perceived jeopardy suggest a lack of suitability for the high offices they hold?

 

[GT49er]

If he and Osborne truly believe that leaving will be so cataclysmic, wouldn't their willingness to put the country in way of this perceived jeopardy suggest a lack of suitability for the high offices they hold?

Yes it does - but giving us a vote on it (about time too!) seemed to them to be a big vote winner. And in 2010 it was.

Cameron, in his arrogance , thought that
a). he could negotiate some sort of fantastic new deal with the EU (OK, stupid idea, high up on the richter scale, but hey, he was a conservative, so millions would vote for him regardless).
b). people would believe that he'd actually got a good deal (well, maybe that might have fooled his fag at Eton; of course, all the remainers have fallen for it (well, they would, wouldn't they?).
c). that he would automatically win the referendum.

So far, Call-me-Dave has got so many things so wrong - let's just hope the Eton pig-head shagger has f***ed up again this time.

 

[looney]

In most leading economies the birth rate is falling so this is a global issue

Am aware of this and it makes no effect on possible solutions, other than globally countries looking for the easy option of sucking up foreign labour is not going to be sustainable.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Outers understand only too well. On the other hand, £150 million net (if that is indeed an accurate figure, which I doubt in this debate) is a bit of a thorn in the remainers' side. We don't actually want a net loss of £150 million. Unless of course, you'd like to put your hand in your pocket to help the rest of us out?

No thorn in my mind. And I already put my hand in my pocket for those less fortunate, taxation.

 

[beorhthelm]

The thing that has confused me about all of this is that Cameron tells us every day that he honestly believes that leaving the EU will be a disaster for our economy, for house prices, for our defence, for international relations and for virtually everything else you can mention, but he was willing to put the country at risk of this disaster, with the only apparent motives to try to sort out a long term internal argument in the Conservative party, or nick votes off UKIP.

absolutly, and if its such a financial disaster then how has this been kept from the public and allowed UKIP to grow as large in the first place? for two decades the debate has been on sovereignty and saddly immigration.

 

[pastafarian]

You're right, let's think long term. For example the £4300 we'll all be losing every year by 2030 because we've cut ourselves adrift from our biggest economic partner.

Again, £4,300 is a crooked fact.

Keep the £4,300 each year, no to brexit

£4300 is a lot that few families can afford to lose..

Is there any chance you lot can argue amongst yourselves first and come to an mutual agreement whether or not the £4300 figure is true or not before posting it again.
I know it’s a massive tool in your argument but you are not helping matters by being divided and contradicting the validity of it .

waits for the first deflect reply, oh yeah…..but why don’t you all agree first on blah blah blah

 

[pastafarian]

absolutly, and if its such a financial disaster then how has this been kept from the public and allowed UKIP to grow as large in the first place? for two decades the debate has been on sovereignty and saddly immigration.

you would have thought wouldnt you all these arguments would have been brought into play early by both the tories and labour and destroyed UKIP at the outset.
yet all the establishment could come up with early on was UKIP and its supporters are racists.

 

[Hamilton]

There is no need
the links I provided earlier for the report address previous studies and how they are wrong in their conclusions.

No I read it.

What I found odd was how Migration Watch's FAQ section spent so much of its time contesting data from UCL/CReAM, HMRC, OBR, ONS, OECD. It's extraordinary really that all these bodies can be wrong and yet Migration Watch is right. Don't you think?

And to your point on crime, you can not use single cases of crime to back up a wider claim. So, please stop circulating the links until you can back up you claim with credible data.

As I have said on numerous occasions, I appreciate where the fear on immigration comes from, but on balance it presents us with a fantastic opportunity if we invest wisely in UK plc.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

 

[Hamilton]

Is there any chance you lot can argue amongst yourselves first and come to an mutual agreement whether or not the £4300 figure is true or not before posting it again.
I know it’s a massive tool in your argument but you are not helping matters by being divided and contradicting the validity of it .

waits for the first deflect reply, oh yeah…..but why don’t you all agree first on blah blah blah

I love the way you have selected one part of my post. Quoting it out of context is a classic campaigning tactic and ironically an example of crooked thinking (Robert Thouless.)

Migration Watch would be proud of you.

Perhaps you'll edit this post to quote my post in full. That would be the ethical thing to do.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

 

[Hamilton]

I love the way you have selected one part of my post. Quoting it out of context is a classic campaigning tactic and ironically an example of crooked thinking (Robert Thouless.)

Migration Watch would be proud of you.

Perhaps you'll edit this post to quote my post in full. That would be the ethical thing to do.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

Well [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] ? Will you be editing your post to reflect the true view that I posted.

Casual sarcasm on this thread goes with territory but deliberately misleading other readers, presenting lies, by selecting convenient quotes is unacceptable.

I am still waiting for [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=578]portslade seagull[/MENTION] to show where I have quoted the £4,300 out of context.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

 

[pastafarian]

No I read it.

What I found odd was how Migration Watch's FAQ section spent so much of its time contesting data from UCL/CReAM, HMRC, OBR, ONS, OECD. It's extraordinary really that all these bodies can be wrong and yet Migration Watch is right. Don't you think?

why is it odd? They contested the data and said how their model is better.The migration watch figures argue a good case and appear to be better in my opinion.
As i said feel free to show how their version of interpreting the data is flawed,they have layed it out very easily for you to contest in 12 easily read points.

before the crash all the big banks,all the big financial institutions and the world governing financial bodies said things were looking rosy.
a tiny handful of firms told them their data was flawed and bet against them.All the big boys laughed and took their money.
who do you think was right? the establishment or the lone voice?

And to your point on crime, you can not use single cases of crime to back up a wider claim. So, please stop circulating the links until you can back up you claim with credible data.

my wider claim was that people committing crime add to crime statistics which in turn increases crime rates,im fairly sure that assumption is credible enough
you are reading too much into what i posted
im sorry you dont want to see links of Romanian pickpocket gangs coming over here to rob people,being deported only to say they will try and get back in to rob people again,it makes uncomfortable viewing doesnt it? If only there was a group of people that would stand up and say this level of freedom of movement is daft......can we have a better controlled system please?

I love the way you have selected one part of my post. Quoting it out of context is a classic campaigning tactic and ironically an example of crooked thinking (Robert Thouless.)

Migration Watch would be proud of you.

Perhaps you'll edit this post to quote my post in full. That would be the ethical thing to do.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

perhaps it would be far simpler if you just confirmed if the £4300 claim is true or is indeed a crooked fact as you said, it would save pointless arguing

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Nice to see Caroline Lucas, Plaid Cymru’s leader, Leanne Wood, and the Scottish first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, highlight the role of the EU’s social benefits for working people, women and young people yesterday.

 

[Hamilton]

If the EU Referendum was today.

perhaps it would be far simpler if you just confirmed if the £4300 claim is true or is indeed a crooked fact as you said, it would save pointless arguing

What respect I may have had for you as a poster you have lost.

You have lied.

You will know from the post that I stated words to the following.

£4,300 is a crooked fact because it is not what every family would lose. It is an annualised average spread across all households. The figure still holds, but is presented unfairly.

You will know I said this because you will have extracted my short quote from the full post.

Your behaviour here is disgraceful.

Perhaps an apology is due.


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[Hamilton]

Nice to see Caroline Lucas, Plaid Cymru’s leader, Leanne Wood, and the Scottish first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, highlight the role of the EU’s social benefits for working people, women and young people yesterday.

I think Sturgeon is right. We need to focus the debate on the benefits the EU brings.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(