[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

No, I am saying that pensioners who claimed they voted for the benefit of their children and grand children to Leave the EU, don't seem to care so much about their children and grandchildren facing a heavier tax burden if it means they might not get as much in the next pension increase.

Don't worry about my parents, they are doing great, they both took early retirement on final salary pensions, now in their 80's they have both been retired and receiving pension longer than they were in work, especially my mum who took time off to raise four of us, no childminder required, you could pay rent or Mortgage on one salary in those days, they started their working lives a bit later than some, having gone to (free and grant aided) university first. They find the cash comes in quicker than they can spend it, no mortgage to pay any more, prescriptions are free, TV licence is free, the bus is free, bit extra in winter for fuel (jet fuel in their case, as they go to Spain for a month in January)

A side issue, but not all of them will have paid contributions all their lives, if you claim unemployment benefit you get contribution credits. A laid off miner out of work for 20 years before hitting 65 could be on full state pension, and a guy who regularly missed a couple of payments a year because he was between jobs in an industry like construction where jobs last as long as the project, will miss out.

They were the golden generation really, too young to fight in the war, bought houses when they were cheap, great pensions often with little or any contributions, enjoyed decades of strong growth since the early 70's and a NHS at its peak. Their vote swung the Brexit vote and was the ultimate act of selfishness to the grand children. There is thin veil of racism still amongst many in that generation, they just can't help it, and the likes of the Mail and The Express know it

My father confessed he regretted voting out last week, suffice to say we've avoided the subject now in the interests of harmony, thanks Dad but its a bit late now. Just make sure you leave the grand kids something, they will need it

 

[Berty23]

They were the golden generation really, too young to fight in the war, bought houses when they were cheap, great pensions often with little or any contributions, enjoyed decades of strong growth since the early 70's and a NHS at its peak. Their vote swung the Brexit vote and was the ultimate act of selfishness to the grand children. There is thin veil of racism still amongst many in that generation, they just can't help it, and the likes of the Mail and The Express know it

My father confessed he regretted voting out last week, suffice to say we've avoided the subject now in the interests of harmony, thanks Dad but its a bit late now. Just make sure you leave the grand kids something, they will need it

My dad has apologised for voting out. He is 72. So many of his generation voted for all the wrong reasons (and that applied to leave and remain but more so leave).

 

[nicko31]

My dad has apologised for voting out. He is 72. So many of his generation voted for all the wrong reasons (and that applied to leave and remain but more so leave).

Mine 73, said he wanted us to return to a green and pleasant land like it was in the 1950's, couldn't really give me anything beyond that

What were he's reasons for voting out?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It is nice to see some consensus on the principle of referendums but surely it could be argued that the sheer complexity of the issue, wrapped up as it often is in a simple black & white coating guaranteed to attract visceral reactions, makes our membership of the EU the last thing that should be dealt with by a simple yes/no tick form. If ever there's a time when Britain's ancient system of representative democracy, with its checks and balances and (relatively) sober discussions, comes into its own surely it is on a subject such as this?

We don't elect our representatives for ever and should our membership of the union have become the most important issue in the minds of the British people; more important than, say, the economy, or welfare services,or health or education policies, then a political party would have arisen, just like the Labour Party once arose, to take us out. Couldn't it be said that that is better way to decide our nation's future? You have to wonder what would have happened to us in 1940 if government policy had been selected X-Factor style.

Our General elections also usually end up in a binary choice red or blue government with visceral simplistic arguments overriding the complex pressing needs of the country. Big single issues also get lost in the fog of war, party tribalism.

The main problem was our representative democratic institutions weren't representing the views of all the people. All major parties were of the same mind re the EU. So a party did spring up and gain support. We had 4 million + people voting UKIP, 25% in the polls and getting no representation in parliament (until defections). We also had numerous polls showing anything up to 70% of people wanting immigration reduced, yet all the main parties either ignored them or lied to them. I don't think you would have really wanted to see UKIP grow any further in support.

When it comes to decisions about who governs us with a constant gradual transfer of powers away from our parliament the people should have a direct unambiguous say if this is a path they are happy to go down. 52% (for whatever reason) said no thanks.

 

[Baldseagull]

They were the golden generation really, too young to fight in the war, bought houses when they were cheap, great pensions often with little or any contributions, enjoyed decades of strong growth since the early 70's and a NHS at its peak. Their vote swung the Brexit vote and was the ultimate act of selfishness to the grand children. There is thin veil of racism still amongst many in that generation, they just can't help it, and the likes of the Mail and The Express know it

My father confessed he regretted voting out last week, suffice to say we've avoided the subject now in the interests of harmony, thanks Dad but its a bit late now. Just make sure you leave the grand kids something, they will need it

Both my parents voted remain, and agree that it is daft to not look at pensions and pensioners benefits, at a time when everyone else is being asked to tighten their belts.

 

[portslade seagull]

But they didn't all pay as much as is needed though. That is the point. They are now being subsidised by young people who may not get a pension. I was chatting to an old boy ex copper at the football last weekend and he has been retired longer than he worked. It is not sustainable is it? Triple lock means that while everyone else suffers from rising costs the older folk don't to the same extent.

Employment rates are much higher now too so actually lots of people are claiming pensions who hardly worked.

Absolute tosh. those that worked paid what was required so are entitled to whatever they get. I agree that not all paid enough but that is the same through the generations including whatever yours is as some will not work at all although jobs are available. You cannot blame the hardworking retired pensioners for that

 

[portslade seagull]

No, I am saying that pensioners who claimed they voted for the benefit of their children and grand children to Leave the EU, don't seem to care so much about their children and grandchildren facing a heavier tax burden if it means they might not get as much in the next pension increase.

Don't worry about my parents, they are doing great, they both took early retirement on final salary pensions, now in their 80's they have both been retired and receiving pension longer than they were in work, especially my mum who took time off to raise four of us, no childminder required, you could pay rent or Mortgage on one salary in those days, they started their working lives a bit later than some, having gone to (free and grant aided) university first. They find the cash comes in quicker than they can spend it, no mortgage to pay any more, prescriptions are free, TV licence is free, the bus is free, bit extra in winter for fuel (jet fuel in their case, as they go to Spain for a month in January)

A side issue, but not all of them will have paid contributions all their lives, if you claim unemployment benefit you get contribution credits. A laid off miner out of work for 20 years before hitting 65 could be on full state pension, and a guy who regularly missed a couple of payments a year because he was between jobs in an industry like construction where jobs last as long as the project, will miss out.

My mum and dad much the same as yours, mum never worked just raised 4 children whilst dad worked two jobs to feed and pay the bills. My dad took redundancy with a final salary pension on which he pays tax. Mums pension is minimal and now both being in their 80's don't tend to spend to much. The problem is some workshy pensioner like there next door neighbour of 40yrs who has not worked a day in his whole life apart from cash in hand now receives more state help then they get combined together

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Absolute tosh. those that worked paid what was required so are entitled to whatever they get. I agree that not all paid enough but that is the same through the generations including whatever yours is as some will not work at all although jobs are available. You cannot blame the hardworking retired pensioners for that

TAKE A LOOK AT FREE MOVEMENT, THERE'S HALF YOUR PROBLEM STRAIGHT AWAY never paid a penny in N.I.C yet getting all the benefits of the NHS.............PISS TAKE FOR THOSE THAT HAVE WORKED THEIR TIME AND PAID THEIR DUES
regards
DR

 

[ManOfSussex]

TAKE A LOOK AT FREE MOVEMENT, THERE'S HALF YOUR PROBLEM STRAIGHT AWAY never paid a penny in N.I.C yet getting all the benefits of the NHS.............PISS TAKE FOR THOSE THAT HAVE WORKED THEIR TIME AND PAID THEIR DUES
regards
DR

As opposed to those on Tier 2 General Visa entry?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

As opposed to those on Tier 2 General Visa entry?

I DON'T GIVE A TOSS ABOUT TIER 2 VISA ENTRY, I do give a toss about people coming into this country and people that have worked hard and paid their N.I.C OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS SUBING A LOAD OF JCL'S ENTERING THE COUNTRY
regards
DR

 

[ManOfSussex]

I DON'T GIVE A TOSS ABOUT TIER 2 VISA ENTRY, I do give a toss about people coming into this country and people that have worked hard and paid their N.I.C OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS SUBING A LOAD OF JCL'S ENTERING THE COUNTRY
regards
DR

So do I. Nothing's going to change much with Settled Status, so don't get angry and use CAPS LOCK, we're as we were.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

So do I. Nothing's going to change much with Settled Status, so don't get angry and use CAPS LOCK, we're as we were.

I thought the Government were looking into placing charges for NON British Hospital requests ??
regards
DR

 

[nicko31]

I DON'T GIVE A TOSS ABOUT TIER 2 VISA ENTRY, I do give a toss about people coming into this country and people that have worked hard and paid their N.I.C OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS SUBING A LOAD OF JCL'S ENTERING THE COUNTRY
regards
DR

You're more likely to have a JCL taking your bloody pressure and being behind one in the queue

 

[ManOfSussex]

I thought the Government were looking into placing charges for NON British Hospital requests ??
regards
DR

Sort of/some places. It got a bit delayed. Lack of foreign staff to enforce it etc.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Sort of/some places. It got a bit delayed. Lack of foreign staff to enforce it etc.

really
regards
DR

 

[ManOfSussex]

really
regards
DR

Probably. Good night fairy.

 

[Jim in the West]

I thought the Government were looking into placing charges for NON British Hospital requests ??
regards
DR

All healthcare costs can be reclaimed from the EU national's country of origin. So, if a Pole gets hospital treatment in the UK, we can reclaim the costs from the Polish government. There's no "looking into it" - it's the system already.

 

[Two Professors]

I do know better, the quote you provided also makes the assumption. As it states further down, the receipts were from self assessed income tax, such as self employed people submit, but they are not the only ones.

It also would be wrong to assume this is indicative of an overall improved tax take, if the increase is largely due to self employment income tax, it would likely be offset by a larger reduction in annual PAYE receipts, self employed people tend to pay less tax and NI overall on their earnings than people on PAYE.

So what you are saying is the massive increase in employment is all self-employed people,new start-ups included,so there are less people paying PAYE,so the take is actually smaller.Yeah right.

 

[Berty23]

Absolute tosh. those that worked paid what was required so are entitled to whatever they get. I agree that not all paid enough but that is the same through the generations including whatever yours is as some will not work at all although jobs are available. You cannot blame the hardworking retired pensioners for that

And the young are accused of a sense of entitlement!

Why should young people pay for the issues caused by older generations?

 

[Berty23]

Mine 73, said he wanted us to return to a green and pleasant land like it was in the 1950's, couldn't really give me anything beyond that

What were he's reasons for voting out?

Sovereignty. He could not articulate what that meant and could not explain what exactly we had lost. His partner said she voted out because the language in the local primary school was predominantly Urdu. I said "what part of the EU do Urdu speakers come from?" And got an infamous reply "they are all the same"

No one made decision based on racism though. Not a single one.